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Crying out justice, but seeking out triumphs (iwanttobeasleep) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-07-31 19:52:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:*sporfle!*

Ganked from [info]clairvoyantwank.

[info]aadler_ writes about his experience at [info]writercon, particularly his bad experiences with slash oriented events. To sort through the irrelevent, boring stuff, you get:

There was a three-hour break scheduled for lunch. I thought there would be time to manage lunch after watching a Firefly vid made with action figures … but there were problems with setup that took some time to work out, and the vid itself was almost an hour long, so when it was over, so was the lunch period, and I just had to wait.

(I got some unpleasant vibes during the showing. Not from the vid itself; actual thought and plotting had been put into it, and there were some genuine comic moments. However, the story involved Mal and Jayne having sex with each other while under the influence of a pheromone-based drug, and then dealing with the aftermath, and I think my son and I may have been the only males in the room, and raucous reaction from the wholly-or-predominately female audience was unsettling and frankly seemed to have some hostile undertones. Left me in a sour mood.)

The mood was not improved by the next panel, “Who Are You People? Characterization”. Okay, note this: there were five panelists, and among them they had slashed Xander with Spike, Xander with Andrew, and Xander with Larry; in addition to which, one of them observed casually that she wrote a lot of Real Person Slash … and these were the people posed to us as authorities regarding accurate characterization. Just as a matter of form, wouldn’t attention to characterization include NOT habitually homosexualizing a major character who had been canonically presented as exclusively heterosexual? There’s no denying that slash is a major current in fanfiction … but, damn it, heterosexuality really is the human norm (not just a presumed standard, but the actual stance of the majority of the human race), and I’m getting almighty weary of having slash automatically assigned the default position in fanfic discussions.

It did, however, feature a moment that definitely got my attention. nwhepcat, not one of the panelists but offering an observation from the audience, related that there had been a lot of recent turmoil in DC fandoms, with the predominantly male population which had characterized the fandom until then being swamped by a huge new influx of interested females … and the ‘old guard’ pleading with the newcomers, “Don’t gay up our fandom!” nwhepcat related this without sympathy but likewise without glee; the others in the room, however, responded with a giant laugh. There are a couple of different ways to interpret this. If those hearing nwhepcat’s comment interpreted ‘gay up’ as simply the introduction of a less masculine viewpoint, then their response is understandable and justifiable. On the other hand, given my own recent experiences at WriterCon itself, it doesn’t seem far-fetched to see the plea as having come from a distaste for seeing an established fandom suddenly inundated in male/male slash.

Taken in its rawest form, that situation would go as follows: the people who formed and maintained a fandom for years, purely from love of the world and its characters, find themselves invaded by a new crowd enthusiastically producing (and celebrating) a mass of stories built around a premise revolting to the original fandom group and glaringly OOC for the fandom characters involved. (Imagine Buffy fandom being swamped by hordes of fifteen-year-old males who thought rapefic was the swellest thing ever, especially when the women — Buffy, Willow, Dawn, and let’s not forget Tara — discover they had actually wanted it all along.) The fandom is being flat-out ruined for its builders by something utterly alien and utterly incompatible with everything they originally loved in it … and when they beg for some relief from this to-them-horrible transfiguration, their distress is not only disregarded but seen as a source of hilarity.

That would indicate not just selfishness, but active meanness. And, even if the slashers in Buffyfic maintain that they’re not motivated by the smug satisfaction that comes from rubbing someone’s face in something that appalls him, it still feels, to those subjected to it, exactly like gleeful oppression.


The comments bring us:

I respectfully suggest that perhaps the fault lies in your own issues with sexuality, not in the faulty characterization or "smugness" of a certain set of writers.

So I don't get how that's any more "oppressive" than walking in a bookstore that has a big section on a subject you're not remotely interested in--you walk in, you look at the section sign, think, "Huh, not my cuppa," and you go browse another section.

Dunno that I'd automatically assume that the blurb quoted means that Mal & Jayne would have sex with each other. It could have been more clear. I especially would have wanted to know if I'd been attending with my child.

I do think that it must be a strange and slightly daunting experience to participate in what is a predominantly female, and predominantly queer-friendly culture if one is neither female nor queer.

And my personal favorite!

Which is to say, at the most simplistic level straight men pretty much think of sex in terms of getting to put one's penis inside someone else, and getting to have an orgasm. The potential for being violated, or even simply getting shagged and not being aroused/having an orgasm isn't part of that visceral concept of sex in the same way that it is for women.




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(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 03:24 am UTC (link)
So...gay sex is equal to raping females? The hell?

(Reply to this)


[info]yaoiko
2006-08-01 03:25 am UTC (link)
Oh......god damnit. SHUT UP ALREADY. Write your own god damn porn and leave us out of it.

(Reply to this)


[info]sunhawk
2006-08-01 03:28 am UTC (link)
ah ha ha i love it when men start to feel the same way that women have felt about comics for years, in terms of making them feel uncomfortable and unfairly represented. The especially funny part is when that doesn't occur to the guy in question *g*

(Not to say either situation is right, just ironic)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2006-08-01 11:29 am UTC

[info]elektra3
2006-08-01 03:29 am UTC (link)
Dear [info]_aadler, As Well As Others Of Your Ilk,

No one gives a goddamn fucking fuck about your thoughts on yaoi. Although we would appreciate it if you stopped making inaccurate and offensive comparisons.

Cordially Hoping That You Die In A Fire,
Those Vile Slashers

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-01 09:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2006-08-01 12:39 pm UTC

[info]ahiru
2006-08-01 03:36 am UTC (link)
So we have people coming into fandom and writing slashfic and then we have this: "Imagine Buffy fandom being swamped by hordes of fifteen-year-old males who thought rapefic was the swellest thing ever, especially when the women — Buffy, Willow, Dawn, and let’s not forget Tara — discover they had actually wanted it all along"

One of these things is not like the other... (Seriously, what?)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-01 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2006-08-01 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-01 09:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doyle, 2006-08-01 06:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wisdomeagle, 2006-08-02 05:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wolfshark, 2006-08-01 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-02 08:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-02 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-02 05:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aposiopetic, 2006-08-01 07:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bluemouse, 2006-08-01 08:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-01 09:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aposiopetic, 2006-08-01 09:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2006-08-01 03:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solar_type_star, 2006-08-01 03:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 05:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-01 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solar_type_star, 2006-08-01 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 11:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-02 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 02:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-02 08:59 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-03 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ryuutchi, 2006-08-02 06:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-02 09:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ryuutchi, 2006-08-02 09:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]provetheworst, 2006-08-01 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-02 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]polemic, 2006-08-02 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-08-02 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]edana_ni_emer, 2006-08-07 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 08:02 am UTC
Word - (Anonymous), 2006-08-04 09:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 07:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 08:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 10:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-01 08:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-02 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 08:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 10:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-08-01 04:50 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 03:40 am UTC (link)
The weird thing was this was just an off-the-cuff comment made in a panel talking about fandom in general. It was more about old school fanboys versus new fangirls and how women in general have influenced fandom.

who of course are all about teh buttsex, obviously

*goes off to gay up more fandoms*

--autobadgirl from LJ

(Reply to this)


[info]nights_mistress
2006-08-01 03:46 am UTC (link)
I read a fic with that plotline, only it was Simon Tam affected with the pheromones instead.

Randomly, who has good Firefly recs?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]magistera, 2006-08-01 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nights_mistress, 2006-08-01 05:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-01 12:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - ealusaid, 2006-08-02 03:45 am UTC

[info]out_bottle
2006-08-01 03:47 am UTC (link)
Ya know, I almost felt for the poor guy for being surrounded by fangirls and slash, until Buffyrape vs buttsex comparision.

Then, not so much.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 03:58 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 04:24 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-08-01 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 06:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]salustra, 2006-08-01 09:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgtgeorgecarter, 2006-08-01 03:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 07:54 pm UTC

[info]hallidae
2006-08-01 04:49 am UTC (link)
Has something been put in the water lately, and I've lucked out on not being infected? This is what, the third, fifth wankrant about the evils of slash this week? Good God.

(Reply to this)


[info]hearsawho
2006-08-01 04:55 am UTC (link)
Slash = the ruin of fandom!

Slash = rape!

Slash = bad characterization!

Slash = INVASION (zomg, get to the bunkers! and don't forget the dog!)

Slash = mutation of all that is good and right and honest!

I learn something new every day, and on good days like this one, SEVERAL somethings!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lerefuge, 2006-08-01 06:50 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 05:13 am UTC (link)
*strokes chin* All the slash/yaoi wanking of late. . .it's like watching cooking shows, ya know? :D I wonder what's up over at yaoi_daily and y!gallery about now. . .*goes to look* ^^

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]footsie, 2006-08-01 05:35 pm UTC

[info]mirabellawotr
2006-08-01 05:42 am UTC (link)
Jesus Christ, is it a full moon or something?

(Reply to this)


[info]xero_sky
2006-08-01 05:45 am UTC (link)
it still feels, to those subjected to it, exactly like gleeful oppression

God, I love fandom. Nowhere else can I oppress so many people with so little effort.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-01 09:43 am UTC
But what are his thoughts on artistic inegrity?
[info]adora_spintriae
2006-08-01 05:59 am UTC (link)
That would indicate not just selfishness, but active meanness.

Yay! Snacky's!

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 06:35 am UTC (link)
I'll just continue to be a slash fan who hates the majority of the slash fandom over in my happy little corner here.

No squealing fanbrats allowed. Sane slashers, however, are allowed to join me.

~Luna

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 06:45 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 06:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladycat, 2006-08-01 03:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-08-01 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladycat, 2006-08-01 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 08:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladycat, 2006-08-01 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenclaw_devi, 2006-08-03 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 08:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-08-01 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-08-01 08:06 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 12:29 am UTC

[info]life_on_mars
2006-08-01 07:17 am UTC (link)
Wait, wait, this person thinks that 'gay' (aka slash) is new to fandom? What rock has he been under for the last thirty years?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]distractogirl, 2006-08-01 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spikewriter, 2006-08-01 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 04:58 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 08:03 am UTC (link)
(Imagine Buffy fandom being swamped by hordes of fifteen-year-old males who thought rapefic was the swellest thing ever, especially when the women — Buffy, Willow, Dawn, and let’s not forget Tara — discover they had actually wanted it all along.)

Been there, done that. Mmm, non-con kink.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-08-01 08:11 am UTC

[info]annabelle_lee
2006-08-01 08:25 am UTC (link)
Ye gods and little fishes, aadler sure uses a lot of words just to go WAAAAAAH, I DON'T LIKE SLASH. Man needs some lessons in brevity, wot.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Dude - (Anonymous), 2006-08-04 10:07 am UTC
Re: Dude - [info]annabelle_lee, 2006-08-04 10:33 am UTC

[info]tianxiaode
2006-08-01 08:33 am UTC (link)
Ifrikos wins.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-01 09:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tianxiaode, 2006-08-01 10:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2006-08-01 11:06 am UTC

[info]m_butterfly
2006-08-01 09:02 am UTC (link)
I really cannot top the comments I left on this thing's CVW. There was a cover. And an icon. Of the cover.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-08-01 09:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]knightrider, 2006-08-01 10:33 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 09:18 am UTC (link)
This is really off-topic, because I know WriterCon is way far away from the sooper-squealy-yaoi-fangirl type, but to the crazy ones, I'd like to say: NOT EVERYONE IS GAY.

Now that that's off my chest, I'll go back to gleefully oppressing this moron. :D

-jupitergrey

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 05:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yotz_fen, 2006-08-01 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 02:15 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 04:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-03 01:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 06:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-08-02 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sidhebastardess, 2006-08-02 07:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nights_mistress, 2006-08-02 12:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-08-02 08:01 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-03 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sadisticferret, 2006-08-04 09:05 am UTC

[info]rubber_baby
2006-08-01 09:46 am UTC (link)
exactly like gleeful oppression

Maybe this should be my new sig.

(Reply to this)


[info]knightrider
2006-08-01 10:31 am UTC (link)
At this risk of sounding like a wanker - don't like it, don't read it? Use your delete key?

I know, sorry. I just get a little nonplussed when anyone tells anyone else what they "should" or "should not" be writing, you know? I'm sure the poor unfortunate helpless guys can live with the revolting slash - all they have to do is pretend it doesn't exist and carry on, right? No?

(Reply to this)


[info]chikane
2006-08-01 11:06 am UTC (link)
Personally, I see nothing agreeable at what this guy wrote. I mean
-He complains that during a grammar explaination, a slash sentence was used (Xander and some other guy's bed) - Why SHOULD there be a het thing instead here?
-He complains about various gay-related stuff he came across like some movie thing(hello, Sappho was in the title)
-He complains that, in characterisation, slash is used a lot. As it should, so dumbfucks like this guy learn that sexuality is not THE BIG THING about characterisation. This thing alone shows that this needs to be drilled into their stupid heads.

Poor guy, someone likes slash and he doesn't, so everything has to be catered to HIM only!!!1
Sigh. After all, we all know that everything should be catered to guys as long as a guy is there, the woman writing/talking about what they like? How DARE THEY if a guy is around?!?!?!

Why don't these idiots work themselves to make their stuff popular too? Stop crying and using idiot homophobia(I mean, hello, I go into an erotica-centered thing with a child and complain about homosexuality? How about not entering erotica-centered things with a child to begin with? Why would it be ok if it was het?). It's not difficult.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2006-08-01 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]suzycat, 2006-08-02 07:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lanjelin, 2006-08-03 12:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-04 09:34 pm UTC

dracothelizard
2006-08-01 01:50 pm UTC (link)
"raucous reaction from the wholly-or-predominately female audience was unsettling and frankly seemed to have some hostile undertones."

Why would the women be hostile to a slash fanvid? Wait, was it a BAD slash fanvid? Because I'm not sure why the guy felt threatened by women enjoying slash fanvid.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2006-08-01 02:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2006-08-01 05:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]entrenous88, 2006-08-01 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2006-08-01 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lerefuge, 2006-08-01 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2006-08-01 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-01 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-02 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lerefuge, 2006-08-01 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2006-08-02 02:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tianxiaode, 2006-08-02 04:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sperrywink, 2006-08-02 09:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-08-12 03:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2006-08-12 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-08-12 03:37 am UTC


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