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Chibi ([info]chaoscheebs) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-07-13 18:26:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:worried
Current music:Magic User's Club op., "Senobi wo Shite Follow You"

The 10(wan)K Commotion!
Short time viewer, first time poster...

I read a webcomic called "The 10K Commotion". What can I say; the art's cute if nothing else. Recently it was featured at the Train Wreck Support Community. The artist of said comic was not amused:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/tws_support/48642.html

Highlights include attempts at passive-agressive snark, the fact the main character is based on the artist's boyfriend, and being all too serious.

I can understand why she might be annoyed; I might be too if my comic was put up at such a place. It's only natural to be a little protective of one's "baby", but she seemed to be understand by the end of it, and there were attempts by some TWS'ers to make up. In her defense, the original unedited first post wasn't that clear, and the current one may or may not be much better.

However, when I was randomly checking to see if part 3 had started, I saw this little comic about the experience:

http://10kcommotion.com/theTENKAYcomic/2-5thSTAGE/2-5thSTAGE.shtml?1

Highlights include lines like "they're probably 5 years younger than [them], sitting on their parents computers eating poptarts and being jealous" and "they wanna hate on anyone doing something cooler than that". (Because making webcomics makes you cool by default. *beat* Wait, what am I complaining about; that makes me cool too! Yay, I'm cool! ^_^)

Guess she didn't get it after all. Oh well, it's more amusing this way to each their own.

(Side note for the author: If you end up here, want to comment, and don't have an account, you can get a code here. Have fun. ^_^)



(Post a new comment)


[info]shoiryu
2003-07-14 03:13 am UTC (link)
Oh, man, she can PERSONALLY have one of my codes. XD Beautiful, Chibi.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]shoiryu
2003-07-14 03:22 am UTC (link)
Let me also note that there's been a little discussion about that comic. Nothing loud or angry, just a few people going, "Well, I didn't think the main character was THAT bad!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2003-07-15 02:05 am UTC (link)
Oh dear God do NOT fricking tempt me to unleash my inner troll...


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-15 02:19 am UTC
Hmm...
[info]feenix
2003-07-14 03:41 am UTC (link)
I sense wank on both sides.

Not that I'm an internet angel, of course, but Aurora came off a bit harsh for my taste. And frankly, it's not that bad. (I mean, Pokey the Penguin and Unicorn Jelly exist.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Wanky, me? Well, duh.
[info]aruru
2003-07-14 04:30 am UTC (link)
Oh, I don't deny that I'm a complete and utter wanker, man. I just find it incredibly hilarious that she'd come in with fists flying instead of you know, first looking at what the hell the community was about, and I'm not above the ocassional laughing at people's cluelessness.

And dude, in all fairness, I DO agree that her art is very cute. However, just because I like one aspect doesn't mean I MUST enjoy the whole thing, or think that the creator is the greatest thing since sliced bread (see: Megatokyo/Piro).

Harsh? Probably, but the whole passive-agressive condescending tone, the "don't you people have anything better to do?" bit, and the "if you can't say something nice, don't say it" (Biggest CROCK of advice ever, IMHO, as it leads to a ton of hypocrisy - I'd rather people know that I didn't like something in a VERY public forum, rather than being forced to just talk about it with "friends" that'll likely eventually just bust my bitch ass out ANYWAY.) parts weren't exactly inviting for me to treat her with kid gloves (Oh, and believe me, that's not nasty at all coming from me - in fact, I do believe I was much more nicer there than I was in my self-wanking.).

Besides, how is what I did there ANY more different or "harsh" from when people point and laugh over here at the folks that come in to post to defend themselves? (Nute and Frito_Kal, anyone? How about when the anti-plebes come in?)



So, to recap:

-Just because I like something about what you made does NOT mean I must like everything else about it. (see: how I think CLAMP's art is cute, but from what little I've read of their works, I'm not really all that interested in delving further into it)

-Just because I happen to think you've made something that's great in some way (either part of it or the whole thing) does NOT mean I have to think highly of you as a person. (see: a whole load of both professional and fan authors/artists/creators whose stuff I'll praise, but I think are total asshats in the personal level)

-And the opposite - just because you've created things that could be considered crap does NOT mean I automatically think lowly of you as a person. (see: Badfic authors. I mean, shit - some of the people who're my friends have works that in some people's eyes, they would be seen as incredibly bad and would label them to be "talentless hacks." But guess what? They happen to be great PEOPLE, and to me, being a good person will always be far more important to me in the end than being a talented creator.)


THAT is what I was trying to tell her, and I THOUGHT she had understood that [info]dawnswalker (the one who posted that submission) or anyone else meant anything personal against her by it. However, given the comic, it's obvious that she still completely managed to miss the point.

I was totally giving her the benefit of the doubt after she had seemed to calm down about the subject, and willing to believe the whole "I was just PMSing!" bit, but after THIS, now she's starting to look a bit like David Gonterman back in the days when he couldn't take even the slightest criticism. Granted, the comic didn't have any of us so-called "haters" dying, but honestly, if that isn't a prime example of Not Getting Over It there, I don't know what is...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh.
[info]ruaki
2003-07-14 04:54 am UTC (link)
And the opposite - just because you've created things that could be considered crap does NOT mean I automatically think lowly of you as a person.

Or even the opposite. Stephen King once related an anecdote on how some writers are so damned brilliant when a pen is in their hand, but are complete asshats/chauvinists/racists/blahblah in person. Creativity does not a person make.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh. - [info]eljuno, 2003-07-14 04:57 am UTC
Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh. - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 05:37 am UTC
Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh. - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-14 05:44 am UTC
Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh.
[info]feenix
2003-07-14 05:08 am UTC (link)
It was just my perspective on the first run-through, is all. I just didn't see the chick as being that snarky.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh. - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 05:12 am UTC
Re: Wanky, me? Well, duh.
[info]virago
2003-07-14 05:27 am UTC (link)
My favorite part was the pathological - and proud - refusal to separate her self from her comic. That was the wanking highlight for me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ruaki
2003-07-14 03:42 am UTC (link)
::SNRK::

From the intermission comic about her experience: "In fact, let's ask some other people what they thought."

Yes! Please! Assure her that all is well and good. That is what cinched the wank for me. If it's not a big deal, why run around for reassurance?

As an amateur artist, I still can't find myself sympathizing with her plight. Criticism happens. Critics don't have to see something, but they do, and they'll put out a review for it. It happens. The points about separating your work from yourself are extremely valid and highly important--taking things personally makes you too emotional for your work, so you create trite like this.

I didn't find the comic overly offensive--the art is okay, but nothing spectacular or unusual--and the story is kind of bland and uninteresting to me (I don't play DDR much), and I don't care for any of the characters, really. In all honesty though, her holier-than-thou-but-I'm-doing-it-passively-in-an-attempt-to-be-snarky attitude over at TWS makes me want to take out on her comic (how wanky of me, yesh).

I wonder, are artists more wanky than writers? If we were to throw an artist and a writer into a pit to fight to splooge first, who would be deemed the wankiest?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ruaki
2003-07-14 03:44 am UTC (link)
Ha. I proofread it and still apparently have proven myself illiterate. GO ME!

'...take it out on her comic...'

Sorry, this is what I get for typing one-handed. ::SNRK::

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]virago
2003-07-14 05:29 am UTC (link)
>>I wonder, are artists more wanky than writers? If we were to throw an artist and a writer into a pit to fight to splooge first, who would be deemed the wankiest?>>

Ooh! I like this!

My vote would have to go to writers, at least at first glance - or maybe that's just because I've been exposed to that particular sea of wank for way too long...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ruaki
2003-07-14 05:39 am UTC (link)
or maybe that's just because I've been exposed to that particular sea of wank for way too long...

I feel the sudden need to go on a hunt for artist-wank; I've been exposed to it many times (and probably took part in some myself). I think the problem with artist-wank is that, unlike writer-wank, many people feel that 'art' is a 'specialized' field that not many are l33+ enough in skill to participate in--unlike writing, where Joe, Billy-Bob, Mary Sue, and their grandmother feel the need to put pen to paper. As such, there are a greater number of writers than artists, especially in fandoms where drawing/art is not part of the original product (like TV shows, movies, music, etc. etc.)

Artists however, I think are far more wanky than writers because of that self-same reason; sadly, however, they're not terribly 'fandom' related so much as self-absorbed and huge on the BNF-ing in 'artist' circles.

I think writers would win the wanking battle if they were able to circle jerk or fellate each other, but if it came down to masturbatory material, artists would win.

::slaps down a fiver:: And that's my bet, yo!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-14 06:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-14 06:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 09:38 am UTC
Dude... - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-14 10:57 am UTC
Re: Dude... - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-14 11:50 pm UTC
Re: Dude... - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]milkshake, 2003-07-14 06:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 02:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-15 03:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]loki, 2003-07-16 06:04 pm UTC

[info]aruru
2003-07-14 06:15 am UTC (link)
I wonder, are artists more wanky than writers? If we were to throw an artist and a writer into a pit to fight to splooge first, who would be deemed the wankiest?

I think comic/manga authors that do BOTH the writing and the art could take on 'em all, if you ask me.

And don't underestimate the wank of film directors (of any genre), either.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Here's a visual image you don't need... - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-14 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-14 07:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 10:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2003-07-14 09:22 pm UTC
WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-14 09:47 pm UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]phosfate, 2003-07-14 09:58 pm UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 05:12 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]phosfate, 2003-07-15 06:37 pm UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-14 11:52 pm UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 03:55 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 03:00 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]aruru, 2003-07-15 03:27 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 03:53 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 04:56 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 05:08 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 04:10 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 04:55 am UTC
Re: WHA HA HA HA HA HA! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-15 05:19 am UTC
gallery! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-17 11:01 am UTC
Re: gallery! - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-18 03:42 am UTC
Re: gallery! - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-19 10:44 am UTC

[info]puipui
2003-07-14 07:50 am UTC (link)
I wonder, are artists more wanky than writers? If we were to throw an artist and a writer into a pit to fight to splooge first, who would be deemed the wankiest?

Depends. Do they write Harry Potter fic?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 03:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mireille, 2003-07-15 03:30 am UTC
Cause everything goes back to Harry Potter... - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 03:34 am UTC
Re: Cause everything goes back to Harry Potter... - [info]mireille, 2003-07-15 03:38 am UTC
Re: Cause everything goes back to Harry Potter... - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-17 01:43 pm UTC

[info]rikoshi
2003-07-14 02:09 pm UTC (link)
Sometimes, people need to hear praise from others in order to feel good about themselves. It's like their dysfunctional raison d'etre or something. They claim to be "above" caring about what other people think of them, but in reality, it's always first and foremost on their minds, because they are the Pretentious Wanky Ones.

And another side note: writing Japanese words into an otherwise English piece of writing irks me already, but when you actually use Japanese TEXT, then you are SHOWING THE FUCK OFF. There is NO GOOD REASON to be doing this, other than to show your user base,
"Look! I can type in kanji, so it makes me all l33t and fuzzy!" People like this need to be sodomized with hot pokers, because apparently they're so uptight and anal that they'll never get over themselves.

I am especially miffed because one of the instances of this Japanese dialogue in her comic said, "But you still speak [Japanese] like an American." Come the fuck off it, wank-bitch. Sorry that us White Folk can't ever be as cool, sound as awesome, or kick as much ass at DDR. I apologize for existing, okay?

But hey, Little Miss Webcomic Author, I just remembered! You don't care what I think, and you don't need my positive reassurance. So instead, I'll just go with Hotaru here:

Go fuck yourself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 04:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-14 11:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-15 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-15 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-15 03:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-15 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 03:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-15 03:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-15 04:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-15 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2003-07-15 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-15 05:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2003-07-15 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-15 10:12 am UTC
Babelfish goodness. - [info]aruru, 2003-07-15 08:46 pm UTC
Re: Babelfish goodness. - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-16 06:33 am UTC
Re: Babelfish goodness. - [info]aruru, 2003-07-16 07:03 am UTC
Re: Babelfish goodness. - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-16 09:52 pm UTC
Re: Babelfish goodness. - [info]rikoshi, 2003-07-17 03:21 am UTC

[info]iczer6
2003-07-14 05:13 am UTC (link)
Yup, she's not passive-agressive at all. I mean it's not like she was utterly unable to take the heat so she happily backtracked till she could vent her feelings in a place she KNEW she'd get her ego stroked.

I didn't think the comic was that bad, but since I know nothing about DDR or it's fandom I really couldn't bring myself to care.



Icz

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]virago
2003-07-14 05:26 am UTC (link)
Thank you... I'm irritated that I tried so fucking hard to calm her down, and she apologized and said it was just a bad day - and then ran away to vent her actual opinions somewhere else. Damn coward.

I said I felt bad for passive-aggressives - well, not anymore, that's for sure.

And I fully understand what a gigantic wanker I am, now and in that thread. Never said I wasn't, and I welcome having my inflated head pierced if that's what's called for. It just chaps my ass when I try to be the peacemaker and it completely fricking fails.

ARGH rageohol.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-14 05:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nevadafighter, 2003-07-14 06:53 am UTC

[info]rann
2003-07-14 07:14 am UTC (link)
A whole comic about DDR... yeesh. @.@ DDR drove me sooo nuts for awhile... I think one of the reasons I find it so hard to understand or relate to is that it's essentially JUST a game... there's no story, no real goal other than to win, and the characters aren't really anything other than eyecandy, without personality or anything.

...

Of course, all those feelings go out the window when I'm watching cosplay girls in short skirts/microshorts play it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]soy_latte
2003-07-14 06:46 am UTC (link)
I just want to know what's wrong with eating poptarts.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rann
2003-07-14 07:19 am UTC (link)
Smores poptarts are NEXT TO GODLINESS! *.*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-14 07:41 am UTC
Re: - [info]rann, 2003-07-14 07:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2003-07-14 09:50 am UTC
Re: - [info]rann, 2003-07-14 09:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 10:15 am UTC
Re: - [info]rann, 2003-07-14 10:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2003-07-14 10:32 am UTC
Re: - [info]rann, 2003-07-14 10:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-14 10:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2003-07-14 10:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rann, 2003-07-14 02:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2003-07-15 01:46 am UTC
Re: - [info]rann, 2003-07-15 02:41 am UTC

[info]shoiryu
2003-07-15 12:02 am UTC (link)
AND the wank goes on! You know what's sad? I can't tell if she's talking TO her characters, or THEY'RE talking about HER.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]shoiryu
2003-07-15 02:52 am UTC (link)
That would be if you click the next button a few times, ahem.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]virago
2003-07-15 04:39 am UTC (link)
Is there a difference?

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together~~

Or rather:

あなたが私である私達がすべて一緒にであるのであなたが彼であるので私は彼であり

wai!

(bitchy mode seems to be stuck on "on.")

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2003-07-15 09:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]virago, 2003-07-15 02:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2003-07-15 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]virago, 2003-07-15 06:50 pm UTC

[info]dawnswalker
2003-07-16 07:09 am UTC (link)
Er... as the cause of all of this wank, I have to admit that I should have done better in clarifying my position in the actual post. When I noticed that the artist replied, I figured that I shouldn't reply to that one, because I was almost entirely sure that she'd go running back to her website and ask her fans to swarm all over TWS Support in support of her. I figured that would save Mongy and Azu having to deal with hundreds dozens of flamers, and LJ Abuse besides (should things get too out of hand).

But as we can see, I guess she had other ways of making her displeasure known. Never mind that there were actually quite a few people on TWS Support that seemed to be of the opinion that I was in the wrong for being harsh, and people that told her that they personally didn't find the comic all that bad. This wasn't a "the world is against me!" type of situation, in my opinion.

Anyway, I did learn a lesson from all this. Am I sorry I reported 10K? No. Will I be a bit less exaggerative in the future? Probably. I also think that I was also being a bit wanky here too, but hey, I think criticism of any kind should be taken with a sense of humour. Feel free to hit me with the Fandom Wank disciplinary stick.

Oh, and if you're "monitoring your bandwidth" by visiting F_W, Artist/Author, feel free to take Chibi up on her offer and state your case. Hell, I can give you one.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rikoshi
2003-07-18 03:14 am UTC (link)
For the record, I didn't think you were being all that wanky. And I certainly don't blame you for posting what you did to TWS_Support. Heck, if anything, I'm almost flattered that we got the sort of response we did in her little comic. Is that wanky of me? Heh. Maybe.

As for rabid fans swarming all over the TWS_Support LJ community... hmmm... you know, for the humor value, it might almost be worth it. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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