c/p'd from Mousie's hard work:

Emma Watson is guest editing a British magazine that comes out on Thursday.

In it, supposedly JK Rowling shares her regret for making a certain pairing canon over another one.

Nowadays she admits she got it wrong - she should have shipped Harry / Hermione.

( You can see where this is going )
The actual article is slated to come out on Thursday. Prepare yourselves for the Second Coming...

On Snapedom marionros/smallpotato made a post - Teacher Snape and Student Harry, where she argued that Snape was a wonderful teacher and Harry was a prejuidiced brat. An anon named "Maria" bravely tried to take on Marionros, but to no avail.

I'm sure everyone remembers the Snapewives... Well, they now have company on the astral plane. That's right folks, buckle your seat belts and put your tray tables in their upright position, because the astral plane is about to take off and your in-flight movie is "Snapes on a Plane 2: Severusmoms".

It all begins at the LJ of mike_smith, a journal half dedicated to "crapping all over Harry Potter books" (that's what it says in the user info). Insane Snapefan oryx_leucoryx shows up to wank in the comments to this post while soldurios, a sane Slytherin fan, attempts reason with her.

At one point, oryx_leucoryx swears up and down that Snape could totally still be alive in canon until soldurios gets oryx to briefly admit that she doesn't give a crap about what really happened in canon and just wants validation for her pet theories and wants:

oryx_leucoryx
...The book says Severus moved no more, but that what OOTP says of Minerva when she was attacked by Aurors and we know she lived. So no, there is no body. Albus' portrait showed up within the same night he died, Severus' had yet to show up by the time of Harry's last documented visit in the Headmaster's office. Rowling's non-canon explanation of that is lame. I take it as the castle's magic not noticing the death of a Headmaster (or former Headmaster) because said Headmaster was still alive. Of course Harry has no idea, if Severus wants to leave Wizarding Britain he wouldn't let Harry know.

Of course I want Severus to live. But more than that, I want him to have the acknowledgment he deserved. By the text. In canon. Harry telling his son 19 years later (and in secret, without the other son hearing, and only at a time of crisis) that Severus was the bravest man he ever knew doesn't quite cut it. Since he doesn't get that acknowledgment I take what I can from the text, and I don't care what Rowling thinks.

soldurios
He moved no more.

Canon text does not continue on to say "And then he moved to a small resort town in jolly old England and got himself a website."

Moving no more means dead. He is dead. He's not helping people being bullied. He's not warning parents about their wizarding kids! He's passed on! This potions master is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet his train station! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If he wasn't rotting in the shack, he'd be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the bleeding choir invisible!

This is an ex-Snape!

...Did you really need an autopsy done on Snape and for Rowling to go over it detail by detail in order to prove that he is, in fact, wormfood by now?

oryx_leucoryx
...So I want to see Minerva bringing his body to the Great Hall where all the other bodies were laid out. And Harry facing his portrait. At the very least. If Rowling can't bring herself to write that then as far as I'm concerned he lives. Call it my revenge.

Then, mary_j_59 shows up to support oryx_leucoryx and throws soldurios into disbelief that there could be two of them:

mary_j_59
It is not canon that Severus is alive. Nor is it canon that he is dead. And yes, he died protecting Draco, if you assume him dead.

If some of us prefer to assume him alive, there is nothing at all in canon to keep us from thinking so.

soldurios
At this point, I am under the belief that you or Oryx are sockpuppets of one another. I'm sorry but I just can't fathom the idea that over one person in this fandom actually believes that Snape didn't die in canon.

It is just way too much to buy into. I mean, at least the Harmoanians realized that their ship didn't sail in canon. You've just surpassed them and went right over the edge of the earth.

I remain floored by your ability to ignore everything cited above as canon. But I cannot accept that another shares your feelings in this.

Well, not unless you two are Snapewives. That'd explain it all and I'd simply back off right now.

oryx_leucoryx
Not Snapewives, maybe Severusmoms describes us better. He's my boy and I'm proud of him. When I put down HBP I just wanted to hold Severus tight and promise to never leave him.

But as to whether he died in canon - that depends on whether you are a reader who trusts Rowling or one who doesn't. If you don't trust her any loophole she didn't close is kosher.

And there you have it. First there were Snapewives, and now there are Severusmoms. Snape fandom has just kicked it up a notch from batshit insane to bugfuck bonkers.

Snapefen at Snapedom are engaging in their favorite pastime - abusing everybody who isn't Snape or at least a Slytherin. This time their designated target is Remus Lupin. Note that this wank started 21 day ago and is still going on.

It all began when terri_testing posted an essay Remus (and other Lycanthropes) as Parents, where she depicts Remus as bad and irresponsible teacher, husband and father. Some excerpts:

( Read more )

The essay ends with a horror-novel scenario:

But if my reasoning is correct, human mothers, in general, can only carry a human child to term. So Remus should have been angsting over the possibility that Tonks would miscarry her much-wanted child, not that it would be born a lycanthrope. But he wasn’t.

Unless the only precedents Remus knew of involved werewolf mothers, who must always produce werewolf children if any. In which case Remus got Tonks pregnant while believing that any child he fathered MUST be born a lycanthrope.

*

But there’s a wrinkle thrown into all this by the fact that Tonks is a Metamorphmagus.

She can alter her body—including, we have seen, taking on superficial bestial characteristics (a pig’s snout). Can she alter other organs to be bestial? Specifically, can she alter her uterus and the mother’s portion of the placenta, perhaps subconsciously, to be more lupine to save her changing child?

If she can, that opens a truly chilling possibility. The metamorphmagus alters her uterus at the first full moon after conception, and manages to carry her lycanthrope fetus past the first full moon. And past the second, and the third….

Over time her fetus’s nervous system develops, and with it its normal instincts. Human, for almost all of the month. Except for those few hours when the full moon is above the horizon.

Her fetus will have no teeth, not before birth, unless that might be another point in which werewolves are unlike other canids, but it will eventually grow claws.

And then will come another full moon, the last one, and the werewolf-fetus’s instincts will urge it overwhelmingly to rend, to tear, the nearest human.

The one surrounding it.

terri_testing also posted a drabble Teddy’s Sister to go with her essay. I guess the name of Teddy's sister is Renesmee Lupin.

sailorlum, a sane Snape fan and Lupin fan, decided to argue, that Remus didn't completely suck. That caused a huge wankfest, where terri_testing, oryx_leucoryx, 00sevvie, duj and oneandthetruth argued that Remus was a bad guy, that it was cruel of him to make Snape!boggart look funny and not to drink Wolfsbane Snape brought immediately ("HOW ON EARTH is that scene supposed to be FUNNY to anyone in a way that does not deny the validity of Severus' pain? HOW?", wondered terri_testing), that Remus was hunting human prey with his friends the animals, that terri_testing is Lizzie Bennett and Lupin is Wickham, that Remus was only kind to Molly because she cooked for the Order and that werewolf!Lupin was probably more aggressive than werewolf!Greyback. Several Snapefen were also pretty rude to sailorlum. My favorite exchange is this one:

( Read more )

After all that 00sevvie made a new Snapedom post, where she bemoaned supposed whitewashing of Lupin's flaws and lack of validation of Snape's pain and trauma from other HP characters, JKR and sailorlum. marionros/smallpotato appeared in the comments to this post and proved how logical and reasonable she is by claiming that lycanthropy symbolizes pedophilia and that Remus metaphorically almost raped Snape while at school:

( Read more )

ETA: Harry has no ability to love and Ginny reminds him of Bellatrix.

ETA 2: farmercuerden summarized the Snapewank in a song.

Snapedom issued a new challenge - Bullies and Fathers. This topic was suggested by mary_j_59. She wrote:

What convinces so many people that Snape is a bully by nature, and abusive? And why do people like me - who can see that he actually does bully, and is even abusive on a couple of occasions - insist that, nevertheless, Severus is far more victim than perpetrator, and is neither habitually abusive, nor an habitual bully?

That seems to be the real gulf between the Snape lovers and the Snape haters, and it's a sore point.

And it actually goes along with Snape as a father. I'm sure that those who see Snape as bully would insist that Snape would be an abusive father, whereas I and others see him as struggling to break the chain of abuse -and succeeding. Again, Rowling would like us to see Harry this way, but she never shows us Harry holding back, being sorry, reconsidering his actions - all of which she actually does show us in Severus. So I can't buy the "happy family/Harry as good father" picture she tries to sell us in the epilogue. I can, on the other hand, see Snape as a good father, perhaps most of all because he does have a conscience (however rudimentary - this sets him apart from just about everyone in the Wizarding World) and is not afraid to discipline the children in his care.

sylvanawood added:

I would like to extend this topic to other fathers in the wizarding world. How about James? We know he was a bully, we are being told he was a good father. How do you see it?

How about Remus Lupin who ran away from his responsibility but later totally fell in love with his son?

And Arthur Weasley who is presented as the model father? Some call him hen-pecked, some Molly's eightst child. He certainly seems like the anti-bully. What do you think?

How about Lucius Malfoy? Would Sirius have been a good father or would he have lost interest when the child didn't turn out the way he wanted? Can you think of others?

Snapefen proceeded to answer that Snape was never a bully, that Lucius was a good father and that Arthur, Remus and Harry were bad fathers. pearlette and night_train_fm tried to disagree with that and were told that James and Lily would've abused Dudley, that Dumbledore wanted Harry to be abused by the Dursleys and sent Hagrid to Harry in order to make Harry emotionally dependent on Dumbledore, that the Wesleys are Gryffindor propagandists who forget nothing and learn nothing, that Albus Severus probably thinks that his father hates him because his relatives constantly diss Snape, that Draco is watching out at the Ministry, keeping Hermione's self-righteousness in check (and even JKR doesn't know about that). Never change, Snapefen!

ETA: marionros graced this wank with her loony presence.

ETA 2: sylvanawood thinks we all are stupid and lazy:

Discussing old topics again after a while will often give new ideas, so banning that or rolling your eyes over it is just as silly. We're not one of those communities who are too stupid and lazy to come up with their own stuff and thus find nothing better to do than to mock what others do, after all.

Just some links that might have got lost in the faily shuffle of the last post:

cesare finds thanfiction's icons interesting.

Guess the celebrity in thanfiction's "original" artwork.

FW's nemesis old friend FanHistory owner and Fandom's Public Enemy #1, Laura Hale joins the circus.

His son? A bird. (PROOF!)

Turimel updates her LJ with screencaps.

Famous last words. :( :( :(

ETA:

HOLD THE PHONE, IT JUST GOT BETTER! BLAME IT ON HIS EVIL TWIN SISTER!

Can this get any more ridiculous? I can't even imagine, but I'm sure VB will think of something.


ETA, again: Link courtesy of sockpuppeteer and luvscharlie: Witness Andrew Blake dressed up as Bill Weasley!




Reminder: please use male pronouns when referring to VB/thanfiction, and leave the transfail in the other post, thanks.

Snapefen are still wanking about Lily Evans Potter. terri_testing posted an essay More on Lily's behavior in SWM: Lily the Prefect? on Snapedom. An excerpt from this essay:
( Read more )

Batshit flourishes in the comments:
( Read more )

The essay about Lily by randomneses continues to attract crazy people. oryx_leucoryx finally stopped wanking here, but don't worry! Enter n1ght1ng4l3, who claims to be not a Snape fan and to dislike the Marauders and Snape equally, despite being a member of Snapedom and two Sirius comms (also such comms for butthurt fans as dh_oh_shit and deadlyhollow).

Wank ensues. Some comments by n1ght1ng4l3:
( Read more )

Apparently Snapefen can't stop wanking. terri_testing posted a James-bashing essay James the Stag.

oryx_leucoryx (whom we remember from "Lily was a traitorous bitch" wank) and lil_itu (who wanked on hp_essays several months earlier) got loose in the comments. night_train_fm tried to insert some sanity in the discussion, but without success.

From this wank we learned that Snape was a downtrodden woobie, James was a sociopath and as bad as Lucius and Vernon, Luna was probably bullied because she was perceived as a closet Gryffindor, Ron was like rapist, all people who think that pureblood prejudice is like racism are racist themselves, but inter-House rivalry is totally like racism and inter-religious hatred. Enjoy the crazy!

From the annals of livejournal, I bring you, "Snape is a wonderful man and everyone around him was awful" wank.

randomnesses, a college student in the Harry Potter fandom, posts an essay, "In Defense of Lily Evans," about the rampant misogyny she has perceived in the Harry Potter fandom, especially in regards to the Lily/Snape relationship.

Most posters react in agreement or alarm, not having realized that the anti-Lily sentiment was so strong.

Enter oryx_leucoryx.

"Lily betrayed Snape and married an abusive bastard," "Remus is a dangerous mental patient," and "Lily should have forgiven Snape for being a racist who wanted her dead" comments abound.

And of course, the party continued in the rec post at Snapedom.

Remember the last HP wank - Hermione Granger - Voldemort in the making? Here we have Episode II.

The OP in the previous wank terri_testing wrote a fanfic about Dumbledore's childhood. People in the comments started to argue with each other and wankery ensued.

marionros, who during the previous wank diagnosed Harry, Hermione, Dumbledore, the Twins, James and Sirius as psychopaths, insisted that Harry, Hermione and Dumbledore have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Lily also has NPD.

And what the heck, so does JKR herself.

My issues, let me show you them.

Snape is a victim of narcissist.

Hermione isn't intelligent and she has bad studying skills.

Pureblood prejudice is probably justified.

James was ever so evil.

JKR doesn't know Neville like I do.

Why did students hate Snape for insulting them? My teachers insulted me and I loved them!

Harry is like a suicide bomber and Dumbledore is like Osama bin Laden.

The whole Wizarding World is a cult, Dumbledore is a cult leader and Harry and Hermione are completely brainwashed.

Because of the Marauders' bullying Snape suffered from PTSD like Vietnam veteran, which justifies his treatment of Harry.

Snape was pressured into joining the Death Eaters.

You call my argument sick, but you find me hot!

A Slytherfan terri_testing writes an essay The Wizarding World and the Otherworld, where she argues that Harry Potter books are horror, not fantasy and that Hogwarts is like the school where the Native American children were brainwashed:

( Read more )

The essay provokes a chorus of "I agree"s and complaints about JKR's treatment of Snape:

mary_j_59 (see "Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!")

This is brilliant, Terri! And absolutely consistent. You know, my sister and I went to hear Rowling, Irving and King in NYC, and we both liked John Irving (reading from Owen Meany) best. Now the reason is clear. Rowling is actually a horror writer, like King, and I do not like horror. Still less do I like horror disguised as a children's fantasy quest. Irving, on the other hand, was writing in the great tradition of picaresque novels - a tragicomedy with a moral core.

But what I still wonder is: did (and does) Rowling know that she has actually written a dystopion/horror story? Somehow I don't think she realizes this.

condwiramurs/00sevvie

I second the 'brilliant' comment. And I highly doubt Rowling is aware of what she has actually written. She is too utterly blind to the reasons we like Severus, for example, to have any clue that she may have written something different from what her perfect picture of her work in her head is. I'm sure she thinks we're just getting it 'wrong.'

oryx_leucoryx (see Cry the Beloved Slytherins)

So if Severus Snape actually survived Nagini's bite, returned to the Muggle world and became some kind of counselor to delinquent youth or someone who runs an anti-bullying program (by working both with victims and perpetrators) he would be a hero with a rather protracted but complete journey? Starting out as the victim of neighborhood bullies (I doubt Petunia was the only one who knew that the strangely dressed kid was the Snape boy from Spinner's End) who must have dreamed that magic would solve his problems, learned that magic simply gave bullies more dangerous/'interesting' ways to hurt people, played a key role in getting rid of the biggest bully in the magical playground and came home to use non-magical ways against bullies?
***
bohemian_spirit has some fics in that general direction - in her 'Light Between the Cracks' series Severus Snape of canon years was secretly married to a Muggle school teacher and while at his Muggle home watched over the neighborhood children. And in her 'Professor Grunge' Severus immigrates to the US instead of joining the Death Eaters. He studies at a wizarding university and becomes a teacher who fights bullying and uses music to assist in magical healing.

But the real fun starts when night_train_fm decides to argue with terri_testing and says, among other things:

'Hermione exiling her parents to Australia'
She did that because she was terrified (with good reason) of the DEs coming after them: Voldemort was taking over the government, had already ordered several public mass-Muggle-killings, and anyone remotely connected to Harry was a potential target. According to Jo, Hermione reversed the spell ASAP once the threat was over. For that matter, is it ever outright stated that she didn't sit down and discuss it with them first?

That doesn't go well.

( Hermione is teh ebil! )

A "slightly disgruntled fan" wrote an 80,000-word essay about everything he disliked in the books and wants JKR to rewrite HP in accordance with his wishes.

An excerpt from the essay:

Destiny Unfulfilled is designed to convince as many fans as possible that a revised edition is called for, so they can begin haranguing Ms. Rowling (politely and with restraint, of course). Never underestimate the power of peon pressure!
Creative writing students will likely also benefit from reading this book, as the careful analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of someone else's writing often helps us spot those same traits in our own work. Finally, students of composition can use this as an example of argumentative writing, as well as a jumping off point for school writing assignments, by either agreeing with or countering points made here-in.

Then he went to The Leaky Lounge to brag about his essay and to convince the posters here to beg JKR to revise the books.

An excerpt from his first post:

I do have an M.A. in English, but I feel my main qualifications for writing the book are that I'm a (slightly disgruntled) fan of the series, and I've put a lot of effort into analyzing the seven books. To be clear, this is not a religious diatribe, political axe-grinding, nor do I attempt to take Ms. Rowling to school on who should have fallen in love with whom in the series. (I am *not* a kook! Heh.) Rather, this is an examination of issues like the role of a protagonist, the writer's contract with her readers, characterization, shaggy dog resolutions, and so forth.

The critique makes claims such as that Harry fails to fulfill his role as a protagonist and, ultimately, ceases to be even a necessary character. Hermione could easily have made it through Book 7 without Harry and Ron tagging along after her.... That seems like a fairly major problem, when the title character turns out to be unnecessary.

I hope we can make enough noise to get Ms. Rowling's attention. We aren't asking for more books in the series, just that she fulfill the promises she made to us: that the books would star Harry as the hero and protagonist, that the books wouldn't be episodic, and so forth.

ETA: "We're operating within our rights under the Magna Carta".

ETA 2: "I've been told to not post more than once in 24 hours".

ETA 3: madderbrad adds his two knuts.

ETA 4: Migdalin himself appeared on Fandom Wank. And he apologized to us.

I thought I'd pop in and see what HP fandom is up to this day. And, whatdayaknow? My favourite Slytherfen are still around. angakkuq posted about this here for the_hms_stfu

The title Rehumanizing the Slytherins: How Fandom Gave Humanity Back to a Quarter of the Wizarding World" made me weepy, albeit because I was laughing so hard. The linked essay is only a precis of the 20 page "academic presentation" sagedarkwoods gave. It's pretty standard pretentious fan meta, with headings such as "Queering the Slytherin Identity". (To her credit, there's no argument being made that being a Slytherin is just like being gay, only that some fans see it that way.)

The comments, on the other hand.... I'll just excerpt my favourite:

( This causes self-esteem issues and mental health problems. )

ETA: Bonus Wank:How Would Harry Potter Judge Susan Boyle? in which it is revealed that Snape is just like Susan Boyle, and Harry is Simon Cowell, but meaner. On the other hand, JKR is Simon Cowell, because JKR has had makeovers, and Cowell arranges makeovers. (Hat tip to mariem_1 for links in her own post.)

Thanks to the mousie who posted this on wank_report.

r_becca starts the Harry/Ginny fic exchange takingitinturns. Things go well for the most part, despite a small kerfluffle during the exchange over reviews.*

As it turns out, that would not be the last review wank this exchange would see.

almond_joyz posts When You Figure Out You, Come Back to Me as a gift to another participant. The fic receives positive reviews until deadwoodpecker adds her two cents in a rather patronizing manner.

Highlights include her telling the author that their fic - a dramatic story - was an absolutely hilarious "absurdist comedy" and then finishing with this:

And that "ending"! To be honest, I've gotten lazy about endings as well. After writing 30 chapters of Yellow Submarine, I pretty much threw in the towel and said "no more." I think that in another month or two - when you aren't so burnt out - you'll probably find that your little story needs a resolution.

almond_joyz responds in a calm fashion, explaining it was not a comedy and that she is happy with the fic as is.

Then three of deadwoodpecker's friends decided to add their critical reviews, one after another, each pointing out the same flaws in the story. birlan even goes so far as to delete a prior positive review to the fic and repost his review pointing out the same flaws his friends did.

Another of deadwoodpecker's friends, mhersheybar, coincidentally decides to post a rant about the right to leave concrit before anyone reacts. In this post, deadwoodpecker decides it would be a good idea to mock the story and almond_joyz shows up to tell her off. Sadly, mhersheybar decided to disable comments but if anyone has a screencap, it would be much appreciated. IIRC it involved deadwoodpecker showing up just to post *gives erotic massage to paralyzed girl* and LOLing about it.

Elsewhere on the internets, Deadwoodpecker and friends are called assholes, almond_joyz flips her shit and deadwoodpecker decides to mock the author and r_becca some more while gearing up for a flounce.

Finally, Deadwoodpecker tries to explain herself. She was just being honest, you guys. And the old guard in H/G is oppressing the newbs.

* I mention the early kerfluffle because deadwoodpecker was suspected of being behind the review, according to her. Edit: Or because it was a rumor going around!

ETA: The plot thickens...?

ETA II: More history! A while back, after deadwoodpecker and her friends swept the H/G awards, almond_joyz decided to hold her own awards.

And thanks to mariem_1 for the files of deadwoodpecker mocking the fic.

ETA III: More history still! deadwoodpecker had a discussion with loony4lupin during the hp_porninthesun fest. This was over the fest rules which deadwoodpecker assumed singled her out personally. loony4lupin is also the person whose fic was mentioned above as having been trashed by an anonymous reviewer with deadwoodpecker being the suspect.

Thanks, mice!

Lots of links here, and I probably left out stuff. Oh well...

A new anonymous journal appears on Eljay: slytherfanatics. Its first entry is titled Yes, Ataniell, Pureblood Prejudice Is Racism and argues that ataniell93 is being illogical about the subject. bookshop/Aja seems to have been the first to post about in public, but she's locked it since. Have no fear, there's a lot of first-reaction wankiness in the comments of the slytherfanatics entry as well.

ataniell93 posts I know about the post in slytherfanatics, and an icon in retaliation. A bit later, she announces she's leaving the fandom.

ajhalluk posts Just when you were thinking the online HP fandom couldn't possibly make a bigger arse of itself if it tried, it unexpectedly turns the other cheek. Condemns slytherfanatics. sistermapie writes a post about Dumbledore but the comments are filled with wank, including a very random Fandom Wank used to be funnier!

Then there's a follow-up post on slytherfanatics Ataniell93 is not racist! But her position isn't conducive to rational argument either.

A.J. Hall writes another rant. Someone called agarttha takes advantage of the general fuss to write a weird rant about how 'One cannot, therefore, go about brandishing puerile ideas of DNA and red blood around.' sistermapie writes a serious essay on the subject, but there is wank in those comments. Our own darkrosetiger has her take here.

A third post on slytherfanatics New standards of Niceness about ataniell93 and theregoesyamum. No reaction yet that I can find.

And, just for variety's sake, wank of the non-is-HP-racist?-sort, Ataniell93 tells threeoranges (whom she recently banned from her LJ) that she's such a Gryffindor on kannaophelia's LJ, and kannaophelia makes a rule'that no one is allowed to accuse anyone else of belonging to a certain Hogwarts house in my lj.'

ETA: WTF????????????? "as a matter of sheer practicality the children probably will in fact be worse off being half- whatever than full- something, so it isn't that the cautious advice is wrong precisely"

Angua9 posts a long, somewhat smug essay about how "RON/HERMIONE IS SO CANON SO THERE!!!!!" She gets mostly positive responses until the link is passed around and the Harry/Hermione shippers get wind. (I have to admit that I did comment a few times myself, but I'm not a shipper, and I was kind of wanting to debate literary theory, and no one would talk to me. :/ I don't think my mere presence on the thread indicates that it should be an i_wank.)

( Some highlights from the essay itself )

The essay, in the realm of Shipper support essays, is only moderately wanky. But the comments are gold.

( Read more... )

*takes deep breath*

Discuss.

Edited for clarity in the links. That's what I get for forgetting to preview. Bah.

ETA2: I think I ought to take this to i_wank now. I let myself be drawn into a discussion that has gotten way too aggressive, and am kind of bewildered at the result. Yay.