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Christopher ([info]cpip) wrote in [info]fandomwank,
@ 2004-06-23 13:53:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Keep on trucking.
My first wank in the new place. Don't Be gentle. Be as rough as you can. I LIKE IT THAT WAY.

Here's some RPG wank, from the Traveller Mailing List.

Some background: In 1977, the first edition of Traveller was produced. Since then, there's been a number of revisions, rewrites, changes to the canon, and out-and-out systems changes -- the updated MegaTraveller (MT), The New Era (TNE), a port to GURPS (GT), a d20 version (T20), and then the "4th Edition" (T4) by Traveller's original writer. Each system has its proponents, devotees, and obsessive fans. Each edition tweaked the canon, changed the timeline, what have you -- CT started with a galaxy spanning Empire, MT started a civil war, TNE ended the civil war and brought on a dark age, GT was an AU where the MT civil war never happened, T20 has settings for either after the dark age of TNE or before the civil war; and T4 happens in the early years of the Imperium. Each timeline has its proponents. Some even cross systems, using one system with another timeline. There's plenty of stuff left for individual referees to develop, and left mostly unwritten.

All told, Traveller is a very, very fertile ground for wank.


This particular wank starts when Loren Wiseman, the Line Editor for GURPS Traveller, announces that his new supplement about the nobility is out.

A chap who goes by the handle of Communique asks if GT will ever print other rules systems in their books.

People suggest that conversion isn't that hard.

The wank doesn't start yet; it builds. Someone says that converting isn't all that hard. Communique disagrees.

Now the wank starts. Doug Berry, one of the writers for GT, lets fly: Folks, this sort of thing is about to drive me away from the TML. I am so sick of hearing stuff like this.. people who demand perfection, but don't
want to do one iota of work themselves.


Harma gets one of the better lines in the debate: A company that has spent thousands upon thousands of dollars, hundreds (if not thousands) of man-hours developing their own RPG system over the course of almost two decades must feel obligated to port all of their supplements to an antiquated RPG for which they receive no royalties? [Yoda]Sound business logic this is not.[/Yoda], followed up with This is math. It's not hard... but he loses points for a huffy, "I'll ignore what you have to say la la la" closing.

Doug Berry advises Communique that "people are beginning to dislike you."

Harma says the man has no creativity; Kelly chimes in and uses Latin!

Communique defends himself by self-quoting and bragging about how much stuff he owns.

In weighs Richard Aiken, veteran of many, many, many flamewars (if there's time, I can relate the epic "How the Navy Works" wanks between he and a chap named Hans). He asks if Communique really is that lazy?.

Communique's defense involves a List of Ten Questions he answers, and he warns that this could turn into a flamewar... Richard Aiken tells him that it's too late...

I expect the wank to grow, and grow. If it does... here's where to follow it!


(Post a new comment)


[info]melusine
2004-06-23 07:29 pm UTC (link)
I'll have to show this mailing list to my Dad -- he's been a fan of Traveller since the late-70s/early-80s -- who's been talking about how wanky the Traveller messageboard he's registered at has been. I'm interested in whether or not the list you posted is wankier than the one he's at *laughs*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


ataniell93
2004-06-23 07:58 pm UTC (link)
That would be JTAS, right? They're supposed to be awfully wanky. I haven't joined because they cost money.

I have been on the TML since 1997 though (yes, I had a life before Harry Potter--I am 40 years old after all) and the wank there got so bad we made TML-chat for it, but some of the biggest wankas avoid TML chat because it is run by Tod, and Tod...Tod has the habit of saying really inflammatory things and then accusing me of being out to get him when I respond to them. Such as using the word 'masculine' when he means 'heterosexual' and TRULY NOT UNDERSTANDING why I or [info]kengr would find that offensive.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2004-06-24 11:50 am UTC (link)
Oh thank you *ever* so much for reminding me of that bit of unpleasantness.

On the other hand, I spent way too much time digging thru the archives to find the "BDSM Planet" posts. I'm going to take them and start plotting evil things....Muwah-ha-ha!!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]teratologist
2004-06-23 07:30 pm UTC (link)
I always thought that the whole point of those games was for people who found math recreational....

Then again, with this Communique logic, if I go out and buy a new car, Honda should provide me with a chaffeur, right? Right? Cause I'm totally at the dealership if that's how it works.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


ataniell93
2004-06-23 08:02 pm UTC (link)
Communique is clearly a Vilani. He's incapable of Earth Logic.

BTW, I just spurted all over the thread. Or actually, I made a futile attempt to introduce Earth Logic.

(I'm Azalais Malfoy)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cpip
2004-06-23 08:45 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm. Well, he DOES have the resistance to change and insistance that the universe conform to his outdated standards typical of Vilani.

Ah well. I'll just be a proud li'l Solomani over here. *smug*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


ataniell93
2004-06-24 11:00 pm UTC (link)
Reason #345 to show your Solomani pride:

People can actually pronounce your name.

(not to mention the whole not having to get dressed in the middle of the night in stately Vilani robes to run down to the local priest because you really, really need a midnight snack ^_~ thing)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bubba_ray
2004-06-23 07:33 pm UTC (link)
Oh my... and here is me just remembering how we (ab)used Megatraveller back in the day to make conversions of Star Trek, Star Wars, B5, Dune, whatever sf we currently fancied and have some giant interstellar wars against whatever faction currently not being played by any of us... or even against the other...

(Reply to this)(Thread)


ataniell93
2004-06-23 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Game systems are MEANT to be abused.

I ran a Star Trek game in CT long before there was any such thing as the Star Trek RPG.

I also ran the space opera universe of my original fic in CT.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cpip
2004-06-23 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Amusingly, I'm toying with running the GURPS Traveller timeline in the West End Games d6 system.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re:
[info]bubba_ray
2004-06-23 09:27 pm UTC (link)
Yep, I agree, and we had lots of fun which is what gaming is all about I'd say. A pity the Gamemaster ended the Twillight2000 campaign prematurely by hurling all over the rulebooks and character sheets when drunk...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]pyratejenni
2004-06-24 04:24 am UTC (link)
Heh. Speaking of space games and game systems, the local used bookstore owner got ahold of copies of those "bookshelf games" -- the giant boxes that held a complete gaming system, usually strategy.

Including the old planet buying/trading one who's name I can't remember, but always reminded me of Traveller....

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]meril
2004-06-23 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Yay! Fanboy wank!

The problem is that I've been in male-dominated fandoms so long that this sort of thing doesn't register as "wank" anymore, and is simply SOP.

(Reply to this)


ataniell93
2004-06-23 08:00 pm UTC (link)
We don't have the years it would take to delineate the flamewar between Hans and Richard Aiken. Or any of Hans' flamewars. Hans was famous for his wankery when I JOINED the TML.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cpip
2004-06-23 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Maybe we can hit some of the highlights; I was reading a terribly entertaining one between Richard and Hans over nobles and the Navy... much, much, MUCH wank.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eiviiaru
2004-06-23 08:06 pm UTC (link)
I confess that I'm a little surprised that SJG isn't giving conversion rules in GT; I always assumed their SOP was to give a conversion appendix to every supplement dealing with another company's worldsettings (as in the several GURPS versions of White Wolf games and GURPS Cthulhupunk, for the first few that come to mind). However, if they're not doing it, I trust they actually have some kind of reason to do so other than spite.

As mentioned upthread, this sort of wank did always strike me as fairly par for the course for this sort of gaming, which (no offense to bigger Trav-heads than I) always struck me as testosterone-soaked and math-crunchy even for hard-SF games. Nonetheless, it does sort of make me want to go play TNE some more. (Star Vikings ahoy!)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cpip
2004-06-23 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Oh, they DID give conversion rules in the very first GT book. However, for Communique, that's far more work than he wants to put in for a $20 book, as he says. Since there's now about 10 or so GT supplements, their procedure is "buy the main GT book, and there's the conversions for all the other supplements so we don't have to reprint the same chapter every book."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]eiviiaru
2004-06-23 10:16 pm UTC (link)
So, wait, all this comes down to is that Communique just isn't willing to convert GT material he wants to use in CT, because that would be too much work, and instead he wants SJG to clutter up their book layouts with CT stats, provide redundant information, and almost certainly decrease amount of actual new content per sourcebook just so he doesn't have to run conversion?

My first thought is "why does he play Traveller if he can't be arsed to do
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<ithat?</i>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

So, wait, all this comes down to is that Communique just isn't willing to convert GT material he wants to use in CT, because that would be too much work, and instead he wants SJG to clutter up their book layouts with CT stats, provide redundant information, and almost certainly decrease amount of actual new content per sourcebook just so he doesn't have to run conversion?

My first thought is "why does he play Traveller if he can't be arsed to do <ithat?</i> Isn't doing an entire sourcebook's worth of conversions still easier than making a new character or, God forbid, designing a new weapon?"

(Ah, <i>Fire, Fusion, and Steel</i> -- the sourcebook that makes the entire GURPS line look like BESM in comparison.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cpip
2004-06-24 12:48 am UTC (link)
Bingo!

I have no idea. But, then, I'm just a heretic who plays editions like TNE and likes Virus, so my ideas don't count.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]eiviiaru
2004-06-24 02:38 am UTC (link)
TNE, represent!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


ataniell93
2004-06-24 05:54 am UTC (link)
Someday I shall ask why you like virus. But not here.

Not in front of Communique either. He never shuts up.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lexin
2004-06-24 07:58 am UTC (link)
this sort of wank did always strike me as fairly par for the course for this sort of gaming

Very much so. I'm getting back into gaming after a long hiatus, and now I'm remembering why I got out of it in the first place!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lexin
2004-06-24 07:56 am UTC (link)
Ah, roleplayers wank. There's nothing like it in the universe.

Shudders at the memories that brings back.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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