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	kijikun 2004-06-23 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	That is one huge pity party. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	embitca 2004-06-23 11:28 pm UTC (link)
	Two pages worth of comments. It's really something. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	snarl 2004-06-23 11:38 pm UTC (link)
	Hm. reads, stabs, translates to English 1) You are a robot. Be the robot. You are not allowed to ignore the thread, you are not allowed to take it with dignity, and you are absolutely not allowed to have a sense of humor about it. etc, etc. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	gaisce 2004-06-24 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Asimov's BNF law says that they can never harm a lowly fan except through passive-aggressive tactics. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	acari 2004-06-23 11:47 pm UTC (link)
	Smallville and BNFs. Does. it. ever. stop? headdesk (Reply to this)(Thread)

	nessa_t 2004-06-23 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	YouiconissogayOMG! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	acari 2004-06-23 11:59 pm UTC (link)
	Interspecies, yo. I'm an eval Teletubbies slasher. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: nessa_t 2004-06-24 12:06 am UTC (link)
	hurls ~~I'd like to hump Lala meself. All that yellow is turning me on. Rwar~~ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: acari 2004-06-24 12:13 am UTC (link)
	Lala is my favourite, too. ~~but Dipsy/Nunu OTP 4evah, man~~ to get back on topic, points at Smallville BNFs and laughs Dance, monkey, dance. (Reply to this)(Parent)

mpoetess
2004-06-24 01:01 am UTC (link)

Meh? I realize BNF-wank is sort of part of the Smallville fandom charter, but I'm honestly not seeing much wank in Hope's post. A hell of a lot of it is true, cross-fandom. And saying "Boo-hoo, poor widely-known person with a lot of friends, your life sucks so much" anytime someone points out that yes, there are disadvantages to it, doesn't really change the truth of those disadvantages. In fact, it underscores them.

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	starfish 2004-06-24 01:07 am UTC (link)
	Word. Once someone's stuck the label on you, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't ... which was one of Hope's points. I didn't see wank either, just some sarcasm ... Unless that's verboten now? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mpoetess
2004-06-24 01:12 am UTC (link)

That's a lot of what I see with Fanfic_Hate: if you're an 'overrated' author, which would seem to tie in with BNF-ness, you're damned if you pay attention to what's said about you and try to ask serious questions about the things people don't like in your fic. You're damned if you snark back at them. You're damned if you say nothing there and laugh in your own LJ. You're damned if you say you think they're being assholes. You're damned if you ignore them completely because then they're apparently going to continue hating your fic and feeling the need to vent about it. The only apparent socially acceptable response is to say nothing, pretend the whole thing doesn't exist, but study every comment carefully and attempt to improve your own writing based on the complaints of people who don't have the gonads to say any of this to your face, for fear of your shrieking minions.

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embitca
2004-06-24 01:28 am UTC (link)

study every comment carefully and attempt to improve your own writing based on the complaints of people who don't have the gonads to say any of this to your face

I doubt that the people who are venting anonymously would care at all if any author took their comments seriously and tried to improve their own writing and I think any writer who bothered doing such a thing based on comments in a community called fanfic_hate would have to be bugfuck crazy.

And I don't see how you are damned if you simply ignore it and people continue venting about you forever. Or that you are damned for any of the rest of things that you are supposedly damned for either. If that's true, we're all simply damned for speaking at all because unless you are talking to the wall, someone is going to react.

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mpoetess
2004-06-24 01:37 am UTC (link)

I won't say you're not right, there - someone is always going to not like you, no matter what you do, with varying degrees of vocalising it.

But F_H encourages the loud, bitter, poisonous degrees, that make people take notice. I think it's a load of crap to say that people should be *able* to just ignore it, or shouldn't be curious if their own fics (or personalities) are being slagged. I get that, for instance, you personally might really, honestly not care if you were a target, or be amused -- but asking that of everybody is... I think asking more than most people have in them.

(And fwiw, no matter how much I disagree with some of the things you say, I do respect the fact that you say them with your own name, and take whatever shit comes down for it.)

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embitca
2004-06-24 02:01 am UTC (link)

I agree with you about F_H and I also agree with Kassie that it is not about fic at all and that it is just about hating on people under the guise of hating on their fic. I prefer to hate people to their face so mostly I'm just reading F_H for amusement value. Since I'm reading it I certainly wouldn't expect someone else not to read it out of curiosity. I admit I'll be looking for my name when the popslash thread gets started (and I will be so fucking disappointed if I don't see it, but I won't be surprised since my high profile is not based on my fic... woe is me!)

I do get that not everyone can do what I do when it comes to letting bile aimed directly at me roll off my back or go straight to that person and confront them. And of course, it is difficult to confront the anonymous and I don't think that is fair and that's why I always use my name.

Still... deciding to ignore it is a choice that everyone can make if they step away from their feelings for a moment and put it into perspective. And I do believe that all humans have that capacity to step back or at least get some hindsight. This SV BNF wankery has been going on for three seasons now and most of the people being mentioned have been around since early days. By now, they really should be just getting the fuck over it.

And by the same token, the people who are still hating Sarah and Te and Tham and Hope and everyone else should just move the fuck on already. Hell, even I haven't managed to sustain my bile for Sarah as long as some of these people have ;)

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facewithamask
2004-06-24 01:15 pm UTC (link)

I don't see this as wanky either, except that, as the post says, any commentary on the experience of being a BNF is generally considered wanky. Reminds me of a friend of mine who made a lot of money off something creative she did once and the whole experience caused her a lot of grief. When people who did the same thing for a living would come up to her and ask her how she felt about having finally "made it," she would respond honestly that some parts of it were great but that some parts were a bit harder than she imagined. The universal response was: "Oh yeah! Fuck, I'd LOVE to have your problems!" Then they'd get together behind her back and bitch about her "whining."

Seeing what she was going through with a lot of the shit, no, I don't think they would have liked to have had the trouble either, and to be honest, some of the slapping I've gotten in my "home" fandom has taken me back a bit as well. Not enough to leave fandom (it's just too entertaining!), but it has been an education.

Just because someone has what you want doesn't mean having that whatever doesn't come with some pains in the ass, too. I got the feeling that's what she what Hope was saying.

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	thebratqueen 2004-06-24 01:28 pm UTC (link)
	I don't see this as wanky either, except that, as the post says, any commentary on the experience of being a BNF is generally considered wanky. Agreed. And posting about it here and mocking it as "Oh boo hoo you BNF" really just goes to prove Hope's point. So I'd say not only not wanky, but also heavy with irony. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	embitca 2004-06-24 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	It's the horrible anemia that makes me do the things I do. eats more iron (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	thebratqueen 2004-06-24 03:43 pm UTC (link)
	I admire the strength of your teeth. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: embitca 2004-06-24 03:51 pm UTC (link)
	My dentist doesn't share your feelings. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	thebratqueen 2004-06-24 04:06 pm UTC (link)
	OTOH his kids get to go to college thanks to you. So you're doing a community service, in a way. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	notjo 2004-06-24 10:11 am UTC (link)
	And once again, I have to remind myself that SV does NOT stand for Sweet Valley... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	judyhazeleyes 2004-06-24 03:05 pm UTC (link)
	You're not alone, my friend. That's exactly where my brain travels everytime someone brings up SV. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	krazycat 2004-06-24 07:13 pm UTC (link)
	wait, that's not what it stands for?? .. oooh smallville. also known as that thing I never bother to watch. (Reply to this)(Parent)