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Whatever gooses your gander ([info]khym_chanur) wrote in [info]fw_debate,
@ 2004-12-02 18:13:00


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Keeping it inside F_W
I know that the rule is to not go out and poke the victims reportees with a pointy stick, but, if the reportee comes here to F_W, they're fair game (as long as it stays in F_W). However, what if the reportee rants about F_W outside of F_W, like in the recent Countess wank. My common sense tells me that this, too, is fair game, but then my common sense has always been rather uncommon.


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[info]sepiamagpie
2004-12-03 03:35 am UTC (link)
well, do you really want to step in that?

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[info]snacky
2004-12-03 03:44 am UTC (link)
I'm not sure what you're asking. You want to take it up with her offsite?

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[info]altoidsaddict
2004-12-03 03:56 am UTC (link)
I think the difficulty is because she first mentioned us offsite, going so far as to post our real-life contact info and encourage others to harass us, which got her TOSsed from Geocities (webhost of kings!). We can't troll, which is a good rule, but if addressed directly in a manner that requireth the smackdown, what's the ruling?

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[info]snacky
2004-12-03 04:02 am UTC (link)
I'd say that getting her TOSed for posting your personal info (like phone numbers) is not trolling, it's protecting yourself.

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[info]khym_chanur
2004-12-03 03:56 am UTC (link)
She started threads ranting about F_W offsite. Is responding in those threads considered to be the same as respodning to reportee rants within F_W (allowed), or is it the same as any other instance of responding to the reportee offsite (disallowed)?

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[info]snacky
2004-12-03 04:07 am UTC (link)
Well, personally, I don't have a problem with you going offsite if you're going to try and talk to her, rationally (which I don't think is possible with this chick, but hey, give it a try).

But if you're just going to taunt and snark, which is what we do here, I'd say that's trolling and shouldn't be done.

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[info]shoiryu
2004-12-03 03:56 am UTC (link)
The answer is no.

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[info]backfromspace
2004-12-03 04:00 am UTC (link)
That no-touching rule has a huge gaping grey area in the middle of it. What we're trying to discourage is people getting involved in the things they see posted here because it's wank and they like attention. Almost everyone's done it at one point or another. What it boils down to is that you really have to use your own judgment on it. What we really don't want to see is swarms of FWers swooping down to mass-attack someone because they show up here. We really, really don't want the comm to turn into a kind of bat signal for trolls, pointing them in the direction of new targets.

If you have a serious disagreement, you're in the grey area for sure and you should feel free to voice your dissent to them directly. If you're being snarky, you should stick to doing that here.

If you post something, say, to the yaoi community on LJ about how much you hate, say, Gundam Wing, you're implicitly inviting anyone to respond (by virtue of it being publically visible) and specifically inviting people who like Gundam Wing yaoi to respond. If you're completely uninvolved with both yaoi and Gundam Wing you shouldn't be responding, and in most situations even if you are involved. The judgment call comes in whether you'd be responding because you want to wanker to see it or because you want your friends to see it. Common sense is the rule in the grey area. Just don't swarm these people with ad hominem attack comments to show the other wankas how kewl you are.

But, for the Countess wank...

If the wank's about FW, then you're involved in the fandom. Go to town. Snark all you want. Just don't stoop to harassment. Doing things like bringing it IRL, flooding, spamming, commenting on totally unrelated posts, etc. aren't okay anywhere, obviously.

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[info]xero_sky
2004-12-03 04:24 am UTC (link)
I'm one of the people whose info she posted. I was also one of those who got her TOSsed. If the Countess of Crazy escalates the situation, would it be appropriate to discuss that here?

I'm only one of the Manson Gang by association -- I didn't even snark at her -- but she posted my stuff because I'm part of F_W.

I'm not planning on wasting any more time on her unless she does something else batshit, but if she does, can I report it?

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[info]wankprophet
2004-12-03 04:27 am UTC (link)
See, that's where someone crossed the line. Once you become the victim of a TOS violation or a cross from on-line to RL, you're perfectly and resoundingly validated in responding to it. At that point, F_W rules really don't apply.

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[info]backfromspace
2004-12-03 04:34 am UTC (link)
If you're getting attacked in a real-life way - like having your real life contact information publically posted without your permission - then you're completely justified in defending yourself.

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[info]wankprophet
2004-12-03 04:41 am UTC (link)
Precisely. That's where the line is crossed.

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[info]wankprophet
2004-12-03 04:17 am UTC (link)
I'm gonna say no, especially if the person is responding to being wanked on F_W. At that point, we pretty much provoked the person, and it's perfectly understandable if the wanker chooses to let out hir unhappiness in a less-hostile forum than F_W itself. Stalking them in their own space after wanking them in ours is a little too close to trolling. It wouldn't be like we didn't earn the bitching, even if it's inaccurate or stupid. If you want to respond to it, wank it on JF.

The grey area I see is when someone gets wanky without apparent -- or at least direct -- provocation. Personally, I'd avoid going to their space even then, since wanking them on F_W provides plenty of opportunity to comment. But it's not as clearcut then.

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[info]mrbimble
2004-12-08 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Well, for what little impact I may have, here's my opinion.

If we're wanking away on someone, F_W should not engage the person in their own journal or their own community.

BUT - some members of F_W were members of IMDB *before* the Countess of Crazy went berserk. So I don't have a problem with them participating in their *own* community, interacting with the Wanker. But it would have been inappropriate for ... oh, say ME, to go over to IMDB and poke the crazy.

When she decided to go batshit and post personal information, I don't think it's against the F_W rules to report her. I did. I think many people did, whether or not they were the ones that she mentioned or not. Simply because SHE stepped over a HUGE line there. Posting personal stuff is WAAAAY OTT and she deserved her TOS.

But... I may be wrong.

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