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vanceone (vanceone) wrote in [info]harmonywank,
@ 2006-08-13 09:13:00


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I see that Bad_penny appears to be in the process of successfully getting a couple of people pretty much run out of town tarred and feathered.

I'd feel a heck of a lot better about it all, if it weren't for the fact that 1) it seems really, really vindictive over there (I mean, why? Almost all of the commentators have not suffered anything personal from this) 2)it is really frightening the lengths people are going (trying to take it beyond fandom and into real life--calling the cops, emailing publishers, and now causing havoc at a convention). 3) if it wasn't a whole bunch of OBHWF shippers attacking H/Hr shippers. 4) Seeing as I myself have been attacked by a few of these people and I KNOW how they have distorted things about me, I can't help but be suspicious of how much they may be distorting this.

None of this is to say that I'm defending Cassie, or AngieJ or msscribe; I'm not. If they plagarized, and were sockpuppets, well, too bad for them. But witch hunts are not pretty, and I'm honestly wondering what, exactly, they could say if they were innocent? Is accusation proof over there?

Second, this has a huge stench of underlying grudge shipwank. Why have all these OBHWF people searched so deeply in H/Hr circles and fanfics to find all this stuff? The impression bad_penny is leaving is that only H/Hr shippers are the bad apples in fandom, and that is completely not the case. I would not be nearly as suspicious if they actually focused on someone other than H/Hr people. It's rather frightening how much time these OBHWF people have put in looking for faults in H/Hr types. I mean, say some well known R/Hr fanfic had plagarism in it--who would know? Would Bad_penny report it? And is anyone looking? They seem intimately familiar with H/Hr types, but are they inspecting their own?

This ultimately goes back to the whole question of why is it always the H/Hr people on F_W or other wank sites? I really don't think H/Hr is any wankier than other fangroups--there's nothing special about Harmony that makes it inherently wankier. So why are there numerous people who focus only on finding H/Hr stuff? Realistically, there are what, 10 regular H/hr shippers who post on JournalFen with any sense of regularity. Why is there so many more OBHWF people here, and why do they all focus on H/Hr? This isn't an attempt to complain, but I'm just asking. Probability says that in a much larger group of people, there would be more wank. Why isn't it reported? What is the obsession with bringing down H/Hr people? Calling police agencies, scouring H/Hr fansites for wanky things, writing hundred page novels just to expose people--and all of it targeted at one fangroup?

And if it isn't targeted at H/Hr shippers, then when will we see something mocked that isn't aimed at one?

I'm just wondering, that's all. I really am not defending any of the people featured on Bad_penny; I'm just noticing yet another trend of "it's all those insane H/Hr people" and I just don't think that only H/Hr shippers are the insane ones. With each new Bad_penny report, I question more and more whether that comm's purpose is dedicated to focusing only on H/Hr people, that's all. For instance, Major_Dallas at one point was accused of plagarizing an essay; I have no idea whether he did or not, but I saw the accusation. It never made it on F_W; it was quickly hushed up, and I don't know how it was resolved. It's very well possible he didn't and that was all solved satisfactorily, and he never plagarized at all. I did see the accusation, however. I have to believe there are other episodes like that scattered throughout fandom, not just H/Hr types. Will any of them be featured there? Or will it only be there if H/Hr people bring it--because OBHWF'ers won't?


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[info]willywanka
2006-08-13 04:47 pm UTC (link)
Unless there's wank, I don't see any reason to report it. Deal with it in your ship, run them out or don't, whatever you feel is appropriate. But if there's no wank, why should it be on f_w (or other wank comm)?

I don't think I've ever reported wank before. I will not report wank from my flist, and in other cases, I'm usually not aware of it. Perhaps that's why there's not as much OBHWF wank being reported? They don't want to wank their friends? If not, I'm not sure why there isn't as much posted. I don't float in OBHWF circles.

I felt there was some grudge in the plagiarism report, but not ship grudge. [info]white_serpent ships Snape/Black. Her grudge was against CC/Heidi not for what they shipped, but for their behavior in the past regarding CC's plagiarism.

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[info]estrella
2006-08-13 04:52 pm UTC (link)
The problem is that if a OBHWF shipper reports H/Hr wank it's OK, but if an H/Hr shipper reports OBHWF shipper they shout "Grudgewank!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]willywanka
2006-08-13 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Okay, I see where you're coming from.

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vanceone
2006-08-13 08:52 pm UTC (link)
Well, but there wasn't any wank with Heidi and the rest--this is out and out a witchhunt. Three times now, Bad_penny has spilled over outside of itself. Msscribe had police inquiries made about her, and school stuff, etc. It even showed up in the news, I think. Heidi and Ebony have been condemned and most likely will lose their place at a convention. Cassie Claire's writing career has been attacked. Each of those things is affecting more than just Journal_fen. F_W is supposed to not interfere in RL, just point and laugh. This stuff is going far, far beyond that now.

And the fact that reading the posters and commenters names is like reading a who's who of OBHWF shippers, while the targets are ALL H/Hr people, is disconcerting. Why is Bad_penny focused exclusively on H/Hr shippers and fandom? I realize they have tried to do a few other wanks, but they died quick and no one remembers them. It's been all about taking down the H/Hr types.

This has moved beyond F_W now, really. And none of them seem to care that much.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]willywanka
2006-08-13 11:09 pm UTC (link)
Msscribe had police inquiries made about her, and school stuff, etc. It even showed up in the news, I think. Heidi and Ebony have been condemned and most likely will lose their place at a convention. Cassie Claire's writing career has been attacked. Each of those things is affecting more than just Journal_fen. F_W is supposed to not interfere in RL, just point and laugh. This stuff is going far, far beyond that now.

I agree, and the mods have been working hard to stamp out that type of behavior. But there are so many comments, it's hard to catch each member or mouse. If you see that type of comment, please contact one of the mods ASAP. The mods do not, nor have they ever endorsed trolling someone's RL.

Why is Bad_penny focused exclusively on H/Hr shippers and fandom? I realize they have tried to do a few other wanks, but they died quick and no one remembers them.

Bad_penny is for discussing old wank, and sometimes people have new information, or information not known to many people. It's like fw greatest hits, but at bad_penny you can discuss wank that wasn't that big, and/or didn't spin off catch-phrases and nifty icons. The reason the Ms. Scribe and plagiarism posts garnered so much attention, is that they featured well-established fandom members, and revealed that these members acted inappropriately. Of course those entries will get a lot more attention than a random 'hey guys, remember that wank where that girl was stupid? Good times!'

The Ms. Scribe report wasn't about what she did/didn't ship, it was about her actions in fandom, the way she manipulated her friends and her enemies. Some people may conclude that since she was a H/Hr shipper and her behavior was crazy, that it means all H/Hr shippers are crazy. However, unless they're joking, they're fucking stupid.

Cassie was written up not because she shipped H/Hr years ago (and moved on to H/D), but because she denied plagiarizing for so long, and Heidi (who did/does not ship H/Hr) would threaten legal action against those who brought it up or questioned/challenged her about it, and then it was revealed that she too plagiarized. Ebony was tacked on because she's friends with Heidi and Cassie, and was part of that popular circle years ago, and she also happened to plagiarize.

The focus of all those reports was not what they shipped, but what they did. The people who wrote the reports are not saying 'they did these things because they shipped H/Hr'. I have no idea who Charlotte Lennox really is, so I have no idea as to what they do/don't ship. However, her report did not leave H/G smelling like roses either (ie GT). And again, [info]white_serpent ships Snape/Black.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


vanceone
2006-08-13 11:40 pm UTC (link)
Of course, I realize that the original posters never focused on the shipping part. But like I mentioned elsewhere, on the last Ebony thread, I think it was, there was a really long thread that TURNED it into a shipping thing, and they started discussing what other H/Hr shipper they could go after. And no one said anything except to start cheering them on, and agreeing that there must be something about H/Hr that turns people insane, for instance.

I'm not saying that Msscribe, Cassie, or Heidi are being wrongly attacked--I'm just saying the appearance is questionable. And frankly, what did the mods of BP expect? They are allowing old scores to be settled in public, from one side of a debate, and they are engaged in taking down big names. I'm not sure why they are muckracking and digging up all this stuff anyway, except to incite and inflame people's opinion. It's a public flogging, and since this is the HP fandom, the fandom is overreacting. And it's fashionable to hate Heidi and the gang, just like it is fashionable to bash H/Hr.

I also really thought it was low to bring up the Heidi stuff while Heidi was dealing with a death in the family. That's low class there.... very low class.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]willywanka
2006-08-14 12:01 am UTC (link)
It seems as though there's a lot more shippers around the fw comms than before HBP. It could be true, or it could be that a lot more people are wearing it on their sleeve than they did before HBP came out.

Either way, if you don't want to ignore the H/Hr bashing, then you've got to get more H/Hr fans to join Journalfen, because I don't think it's likely for the H/Hr bashing to stop. You guys (H/Hr vs OBHWF) have a looooong history. And if HBP confirmed H/Hr (in an obvious way that even simpletons like me could see), you know we'd be mocking the OBHWF shippers.

I think the BP mods expected wank and shit-flinging, but not that people would be trying to bring this into RL.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]emiweebee
2006-08-13 11:14 pm UTC (link)
B_P is a different entity from FW. It's recycling old, forgotten wanks. There's been plenty of wank from Heidi et al in the past.

The Msscribe police inquiries were about ascertaining her penultimate betrayal, and was done with the knowledge of her personal friends in an attempt to prove her innocence. It wasn't the same as the issues raised by non-members with the CC entry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]carlanime
2006-08-14 03:58 pm UTC (link)
For what it's worth: I'm a mod at Bad Penny. Anyone who knows me knows I don't define myself by shipping preferences--but anyone who knows me better, or has actually read any of my HP fanfic, will have guessed that I'm not madly OBHWF-ish. There is no policy on who can join BP, so if reading the posters and commenters names is like reading a who's who of OBHWF shippers, the only suggestion I can make is that you encourage more people from other ships (or, better yet, other fandoms) to join.

My only role as a BP mod has been to screen comments from people a) trying to make "let's bring this into the real world!" suggestions or b) posting the same comment multiple times because anon commenting screwed up somehow. And that's it, that's all I've ever had a chance to do. I volunteered to help mod *only* because I shared the other moderators' concerns that people's real names/addresses/photos might show up in the comments section, and it seemed like the more people watching for that, the better. No instructions were given on monitoring participants' shipping preferences or being 'specially interested in H/Hr plagiarists. Really. None.

So when you say that F_W is supposed to not interfere in RL, just point and laugh, please understand that we've been trying our best to keep BP similarly aloof. We understand perfectly well that we cannot control people's behavior outside the community, but we've been trying to keep people from using BP as some sort of convenient place to meet up and urge one another on in their pursuit of...whatever the hell they think they're accomplishing.

I, personally, think it's perfectly reasonable for people to reflect on things they've read in BP and, for example, make future book-buying choices based on that, but they don't need to come back and tell us they've done so. And that goes double for choices like "notifying people" and so forth. Make whatever moral choice you want, or shrug your shoulders and move on, but there's no need for anyone to come tell the world I'm so outraged I'm taking action! via the BP comments.



(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]estrella
2006-08-14 04:28 pm UTC (link)
So, are you saying BP would accept a recount of Psychic_Serpent wank?

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[info]carlanime
2006-08-14 05:00 pm UTC (link)
::boggles::

Since I wasn't addressing "what BP accepts," I obviously wasn't saying that. However, if it were posted, I'd monitor the comments and screen-as-appropriate. Because, to reiterate: my only role as a BP mod has been to screen comments.

But if the comm owner ever asks me to make decisions on accepting posts, I'll be willing to look at a post on any topic or person, provided it fits within the BP community description. I won't decide based on the shipping preferences of the people involved. And personally, I think an in-depth look at Mysti's whole "massively expensive zines!!!" thing would be interesting.

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[info]estrella
2006-08-14 05:04 pm UTC (link)
I personally suspect that if we posted about it at BP it wouldn't be accepted by PJ, but I may be wrong.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]estrella
2006-08-14 05:05 pm UTC (link)
And, who is Mysti?

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[info]carlanime
2006-08-14 05:12 pm UTC (link)
The person who owns "Agent With Style," which publishes the extremely expensive zines.

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[info]estrella
2006-08-14 05:19 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I didn't remember her name.
I agree that person is suspicious and worth of investigate more.
However Barb claim that she didn't know about the prices there doesn't seem supported by the fact she had a link advertising her zine in AWS in her site.http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7029/3b5xr.gif

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[info]carlanime
2006-08-14 05:28 pm UTC (link)
I can't speak for Barb, but I have a theory about that link thing, if someone would like to test it.

If you go to the Agent With Style page, the seond link-in-the-row-of-links says "want us to agent for you?" If you click it brings up a form, and explains that once you send in the form, they'll send you their terms of service. My theory is that they get you to agree to place a link to their page...I don't want to fill in the form, because I *don't* want them to "agent" for me, but I'm extremely curious about what, exactly, one agrees to when one lets AWS use your fic in a zine.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]estrella
2006-08-14 08:29 pm UTC (link)
Hmm, maybe Barb was a victim of AWS, but certainly what she can't claim is that she didn't know about the prices, because that info was in the link she provided.

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[info]mrs_bombastic
2006-08-14 05:24 pm UTC (link)
And if estrella had paid attention to all of the info that's out there about this, she should TOTALLY know that :p

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[info]estrella
2006-08-14 08:28 pm UTC (link)
I actually knew it but I forgot about it.

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[info]estrella
2006-08-14 05:12 pm UTC (link)
Was Mysti the name of the SW person who sold her fanfic in Amazon?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]estrella
2006-08-14 04:30 pm UTC (link)
*Psychic_Serpent wank explained here:
http://www.journalfen.net/community/harmonywank/10845.html?thread=323421#t323421

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[info]carlanime
2006-08-14 05:11 pm UTC (link)
If someone's compiling links on that zine publisher, it might be worth figuring out what this is about--obviously there were complaints about pricing going on at the time.

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[info]estrella
2006-08-14 05:14 pm UTC (link)
Ahh, Mysti is the person who runs AWS?

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[info]carlanime
2006-08-14 05:17 pm UTC (link)
Yup. And obviously there've been complaints about AWS before (which, in my opinion, does make it kind of appropriate for BP), but I've never seen a comprehensive write-up...

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[info]zyna_kat
2006-08-15 11:30 am UTC (link)
Mysti Frank and AWS have been around for quite a while. She's usually one of the first things new people in fandom are warned about. So, this story goes back a long way. If you're really interested in doing an expose on Mysti Frank, I suggest you contact a long-time fan (someone who's been in fandom at least 20 years) for information.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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