(Post a new comment)

	bigi 2009-04-12 05:31 pm UTC (link)
	As another outsider to the SPN fandom, I agree with everything you said. (Reply to this)

	catslash 2009-04-12 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	I'd like to know where these people who never see "John rapes Dean" fics are hanging out. It seems like I scroll past one or two of those a month. (Reply to this)

ultimi_scopuli
2009-04-12 07:57 pm UTC (link)

It is like Charmed, a show about 3 sisters and the males in that show often acted as love interests or villains for the girls, no one every accused that show as being sexist.

No one thinks of the poor mens! I also like how Supernatural is All About The Boyz, women can only exist in relation to them and just get refrigerated to advance the plot, but the show is Totes Not Sexist. I couldn't say why this fandom got a bad rep!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	esclaramonde 2009-04-12 08:11 pm UTC (link)
	I decided to stop replying last night, and I got that one in the morning. I was itching, ITCHING I SAY, to go on a rant about sexism, but if this is the person who said "misogynism" I decided she wouldn't get it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lady_ganesh 2009-04-14 01:31 pm UTC (link)
	There's always the time-honored "Okay!" (Reply to this)(Parent)

esorlehcar
2009-04-12 08:20 pm UTC (link)

Heh. I was really defensive when Women's Work first premiered, because suddenly people who had never seen the show were defining it purely by the one vid, and people in fandoms with canons that were equally problematic were self-righteously patting themselves on the back for what good feminists they were because they would never watch the show. Then S3 happened, the the fandom erupted with misogyny and seething hatred for anyone who objected to it, BNFs were praised the skies for their "bravery" for posts that literally read "I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT RACISM AND MISOGYNY," and I realized that no, really, the fandom was in a class all by itself. Yay SPN.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esclaramonde 2009-04-12 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	But I am assured that, like, everyone is always arguing all the time over the misogyny! Really! They're so conflicted and debatey. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esorlehcar 2009-04-12 09:38 pm UTC (link)
	SPN fandom: Where "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY FANDOM YOU FUCKING FEMINAZI CUNTS" is considered thoughtful, reasonable debate. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	miss_padfoot 2009-04-13 12:27 am UTC (link)
	what. Does that actually happen often? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esorlehcar 2009-04-13 01:39 am UTC (link)
	There was a quite a bit of it last spring, when canon got really bad and people started commenting on it. Even the supposed "good" posts were all, "If you have any problem with misoygny on the show, the only rational way to respond is to keep your mouth shut and leave the fandom." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	stella_polaris 2009-04-12 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	Except Leo and Cole both had character purposes of their own, at least back when I was still watching. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mcity 2009-04-13 01:20 am UTC (link)
	Wait, it sounds like you're claiming the show had an actual point. I'm having some difficulty with the concept. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stella_polaris 2009-04-13 01:23 am UTC (link)
	I'd never claim such a thing. But the boys weren't just Romantic Interests. Although I saw clips of the later episodes, and to be fair, it seems like that's what they later became. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	panthea 2009-04-14 12:57 am UTC (link)
	And CHRIS. BIG GAY CHRIS. Oh, Drew Fuller and your "acting" "skills," I heart you so. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stella_polaris 2009-04-14 01:06 pm UTC (link)
	I... have no idea what you're on about, sorry. Chris who? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mcity 2009-04-12 08:30 pm UTC (link)
	There are people in SPN fandom who can't find the crazy? Clearly, they aren't reading the recaps at TWoP. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	esclaramonde 2009-04-12 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	Well, when you think fangirls hating on Danielle or Sandy or whoever one of those guys is dating is just jealously and has nothing to do with internalized misogyny, it's probably a lot easier to avoid the crazy. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mcity 2009-04-12 11:14 pm UTC (link)
	You know those recaps I mentioned? I stopped reading them recently because I couldn't handle the crazy. One more "GOOORRREEEE!" and I might've put my fist through the screen. I am now more or less SPN-crazy free. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esclaramonde 2009-04-12 11:25 pm UTC (link)
	I haven't checked TWOP since Jacob and Sara M. went off the deep end. What's crazy about the recaps - emphasis on the ho yay and hatred of female characters? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

<thoughts subject="yaoi">

mcity
2009-04-13 12:02 am UTC (link)

Mostly Damien referring to Cas as "my sweet baboo" and Raoul, the Big Gay SPN Dragon. Allow me to quote the recap for "The Monster at the End of this Book;

Rattle, Rattle WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!" shrieks Raoul The Big Gay Supernatural Dragon, jumping the gun considerably and now feeling quite the fool, given that he's writhing about upon his overstuffed armchair with delight over nothing more than a flock of twittering birds. "Oh, I am ashamed!" Raoul shrieks, blushing furiously. "However! In my defense, you did startle me with that most unusual outburst of yours!" My apologies, friend of friends, but I was quite startled myself, for they've skipped the BLOOD-RED THEN! this evening.

And I'm not even including the italics.

Ah, yes, Jacob. I read a couple of his Who recaps. I don't like having the impression that the recapper is getting off on how clever they are.

After the double-glazier place let you go, you got a job at a place called HC Clements. You were a temp. You liked it that way. You were only ever a temp because you were drifting; you're still drifting. You were worth better than what you were getting, so you refused to commit to them. But you never reached higher than that. "Clemency" means a lessening of the penalty, without forgiveness of the crime. That's what you were doing to yourself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> esclaramonde 2009-04-13 01:06 am UTC (link)
	What the what the what. Is everything on TWOP unreadable these days? (Jacob's at his worst when he's tossing in fragments of Latin and talking about how beauuuuuuutiful everyone is, imo.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> mcity 2009-04-13 01:15 am UTC (link)
	I find the Dollhouse and Burn Notice 'caps passable, even if the latter sometimes seems a bit too critical. What I can't believe is that they have a 'capper for "Rock of Love Bus", but not for NBC's "Life". (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> esclaramonde 2009-04-13 01:30 am UTC (link)
	How can they not do Life? You'd think Jacob would be all over it - for once, everything is connected and there's all sorts of moments of grace. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> panthea 2009-04-14 10:39 am UTC (link)
	Oh, but if he pointed out connections and stuff that were actually there, he wouldn't feel nearly so smart. I may dislike Jacob. A lot. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> lady_ganesh 2009-04-14 01:32 pm UTC (link)
	Protip: Don't read his essay in In the Hunt. Unless you feel like killing someone that day. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> willywanka 2009-04-15 12:15 am UTC (link)
	Have you read his True Blood recaps? tears out hair If not, I don't suggest you start. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi">

maev_connacht
2009-04-13 04:53 pm UTC (link)

I don't mind Jacob too much (but, then, I was an English major in college and thus have a high tolerance for pretentious bullshit), but I would love nothing more than to choke Demian to death with his imaginary gay dragon's tail. I've been at a loss as to how this is in any way entertaining and not annoying in a way that makes me feel embarrassed for him for a couple years now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: <thoughts subject="yaoi"> cygnia 2009-04-19 12:21 am UTC (link)
	I had to stop reading his Doctor Who recaps for my own sanity's sake (and this is someone who is a Donna fan). It didn't help he had his shipping biases and gods forbid anyone dared to say anything anti-shippy. :p TWOP, I wish I could quit you...:-/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	b_jellybean 2009-04-13 01:26 am UTC (link)
	I'm sorry-- this implies that Jacob was ever ON the deep end. (SO. MUCH. HATE. I had to stop reading his BSG recaps because they made me want to throw things (such as my own body) against the wall.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

catslash
2009-04-13 05:26 pm UTC (link)

My first exposure to Jacob's, uh, unique recapping style was the Serenity recap. I just sat there start slack-jawed at my computer as I read. "What? What?! Who okayed this? Isn't this site supposed to be funny? What the fuck is this shit?"

I waded through his Gossip Girl recaps for a while, because there really were some good observations buried under all the pretentious BS, but eventually I gave up. A recap of GG does not have to be twenty-plus pages. It just doesn't.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	b_jellybean 2009-04-13 05:46 pm UTC (link)
	My "favorite" part of the Serenity recap is that he says at the beginning that he wants to write the recap without assuming the reader watched Firefly, which I guess makes sense until you realize that he's assuming the reader DID watch Buffy and Angel. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	gun 2009-04-12 11:57 pm UTC (link)
	I'm not too good for a lot of things. I have licked my fair share of live electrical cords and eaten more than my fair share of food off the ground. And even I am too good for SPN fandom. (Reply to this)

	miss_padfoot 2009-04-13 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Obviously if the misogyny and the mediocrity of the show deter you from participating in the fandom, you're NOT POSSIBLY EVEN SLIGHTLY QUALIFIED to comment on anything in it :D (Reply to this)

	evening_rose 2009-04-13 01:02 am UTC (link)
	I personally LOLed at the one person who kept saying "We're not misogynists! The female characters just didn't work out!" Yes, because starting a campaign against them before the season even starts is so very not misogynistic. eyeroll This is why I watch the show, and then discuss it with NO ONE. o.O (Reply to this)(Thread)

	esclaramonde 2009-04-13 01:07 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, it's a bit dim to protest that you were just happy when the female characters left because oh, they were so poorly-written, when your male leads are just as poorly-written if not more so. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	evening_rose 2009-04-13 01:21 am UTC (link)
	I know, right? I mean, yeah, I love the show because I really dig the whole urban-legends, monsters, angels and demons thing they have going. But, really, if I want well-written characters? I'll... ...probably go to the bookstore. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lady_ganesh 2009-04-14 01:34 pm UTC (link)
	Don't forget Bela was poorly-written because she was smarter than Sam and Dean. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	misachan 2009-04-16 01:21 am UTC (link)
	Man, this is all just reminding me how much I loved Bela. I partially based my warlock on her. I need to find me an Bela!icon. Possibly with "Smarter than you" as the text. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lady_ganesh 2009-04-16 01:42 am UTC (link)
	I have a pretty good one over on LJ. Base was by ladymanson, you could check her out? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	misachan 2009-04-16 02:15 am UTC (link)
	Ah, now I'm ready for the next SPN wank! (thanks for the rec!) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lady_ganesh 2009-04-16 02:17 am UTC (link)
	Always glad to spread Bela love! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	brown_betty 2009-04-21 09:25 pm UTC (link)
	I guess dying with your entrails spread across the ceiling is a way of “not working out.” Hello of a workplace review, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chibikaijuu 2009-04-16 05:45 am UTC (link)
	OT, but the Avatar secret just makes me want to punch people. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	brown_betty 2009-04-21 09:29 pm UTC (link)
	Oh wtf, I just went to see what you were talking about and now I want to put my face through the computer screen. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esclaramonde 2009-04-22 12:49 am UTC (link)
	For my own sanity, I just assume all Avatar casting secrets are trolls now. (Reply to this)(Parent)