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	notjo 2008-05-05 06:45 pm UTC (link)
	I know what you mean by "Scifag", but I've heard so many gay people tell me that they won't associate with Anonymous because of the random use of homophobic slurs like "fag". I haven't seen anyone use that here before - would you consider changing it? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	tehrin 2008-05-05 06:52 pm UTC (link)
	I agree with notjo. Please change that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	solle 2008-05-05 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	Changed, sorry about that. Even the Old Guard is using chan slang these days so I tend to forget how bad it sounds at times. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	notjo 2008-05-05 07:12 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

solle
2008-05-05 07:29 pm UTC (link)

I kind of wonder, though... do these people realize the word "fag" is basically a reappropriation? It's not just used for Scientologists, but actually mostly for anons when talking about anons (i.e. DCfag, Britfag, Dutchfag). I've even heard "gayfag" used for "homosexual anonymous". I'm usually a lot more offended by words like "Scilon" and "clam", because they actually sound like slurs to me... the "fag" thing is just a way for anon to show we're not taking ourselves too seriously.

(Also, the vast majority of anon I know are queer. Including a gay Jehova's Witness.)

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spacelogic
2008-05-05 09:31 pm UTC (link)

Speaking as one of them, I do -- but I don't want to be a part of it. I see it like this: in the general society the term is still one of the most common insults for males, and I don't want to become desensitized to it in case the desensitization leaks into my general interactions and causes me to offend someone/not think to object to hostile use of the term -- and it's an ugly-sounding word, anyway. (Weirdly, I'm okay with "dyke." I think it's partly because I actually am a part of the group in question and partly because it's less associated with people getting the shit beaten out of them.)

</thoughts on yaoi>

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	tehrin 2008-05-06 12:09 am UTC (link)
	I get that. But the thing with reapprorpiation is that you can't re-appropriate some words. You can't take back porch baby.* *Clerks 2 reference.. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	soupspooks 2008-05-06 03:11 am UTC (link)
	You mean porch monkey. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tehrin 2008-05-06 09:17 am UTC (link)
	Heh. Opps. Same diff in the end though. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	t_boy 2008-05-06 10:25 am UTC (link)
	I dunno. I consider it breaking Rule #1 and #2. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	photosinensis 2008-05-05 07:32 pm UTC (link)
	The term "Scilon" is generally preferred amongst the Emily Post crowd of Anonymous, simply because we don't like the association of the term "fag" with homophobia. I'm not sure how homophobic the term is intended to be, though, as many Anons use the term to refer to themselves. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	solle 2008-05-05 08:34 pm UTC (link)
	That's the thing; like I said above, it's not remotely homophobic and it basically just means "person". (Or, if you want to get more specific in this context, "person who is doing something [for their preferred cause]".) "Scilon" and "clam" sound a whole lot more like slurs to me. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ecchaniz0r
2008-05-05 11:59 pm UTC (link)

it's not remotely homophobic

As the tangled cord spoke, I'm a frayed knot.

You can tout reappropriation and reclamation until hr cows come home, but to those outside the *chandom, appending fag to the end opf everything under the sun makes one look like an idiot/homophobe/scolex.

Context matters. Also - IIRC, you're in a country that lacks the massive spectre of homophobia that lurks in North America like a bad smell.

tl;dr the word is still EXTENSIVELY used as a homophobic asshat slur and no amount of goodwill and fuzzies can change that. Fag away, but fag at your own peril; people may well decide you're the same kind of douche as the people who apply the word 'fag' to gays and lesbians in a shitty manner. People in privileged positions don't get to decide what is or is not offensive, k thx.

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	solle 2008-05-06 07:23 am UTC (link)
	For the record? I'm queer. And I didn't mean to decide anything or offend anyone. (no wank plz. ;_; ) (Reply to this)(Parent)

aristaea
2008-05-06 01:30 am UTC (link)

I agree with you. I don't find "-fag" at all offensive, but I am desensitized because I have a gay friend who constantly insults everyone. He does it casually and fondly, so I tend not to take any insults seriously. Also, even if we don't use it in a homophobic manner, it is still an insult (and is often used that way among Anonymous).

So I guess this is a case for rules 1 & 2.

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kylenne
2008-05-06 01:58 am UTC (link)

My sister and I jokingly call each other black bitches all the time but there is no way I'd say that to a total stranger. In fact if someone said that to my sister and I was present, we'd fight over who got to hit them in the mouth.

And "fag" is very, very loaded. My friend, self appointed Queen of Yonkers, refers to himself that way, I call myself a dyke and we will use it jokingly but I don't even use those terms with "family" unless I know they are cool with it. Much like the N word, not every LGBT person is on board with the whole reclamation thing. Just look at the ongoing argument about "queer".

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aristaea
2008-05-06 03:23 am UTC (link)

I think a lot of people have a personal vocabulary of insulting/vulgar language that they use with friends. My friends and I cussed at each other all the time when I was a teenager, and it was really weird when I went to college to have friends that I couldn't do that with, because for me it's natural to call someone "bitch" and mean it nicely, but to most of the world, it's inappropriate and rude.

I personally don't find words all that offensive, even when people are trying to be insulting, and I tend to be so self-centered that I have a "yeah, whatever" response to all criticism. But I realise that most of the population does not operate with this buffer, so even though I will never understand the aversion, I try to respect it in public.

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	iwanttobeasleep 2008-05-05 07:35 pm UTC (link)
	I agree: I know lots of them are 4chan people so I don't get riled up, but this isn't 4chan and it's not a thing you should do if you want to be respected outside 4chan. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tarash 2008-05-05 06:50 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I hope this hits magazines as well! I can see Panorama and Nieuwe Revu pay some attention to this. It's crime AND Scientology failure, they like that sort of thing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	solle 2008-05-05 07:11 pm UTC (link)
	We were in the Nieuwe Revu just a few weeks ago, actually. Full page interview by Zvezdana Vukojevic. She was really interested, kept calling me Anonymous for more information, but she sadly ended up ignoring most of it... still, I agree, this should definitely get them to pay attention. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tarash 2008-05-06 06:09 am UTC (link)
	Ah, see, my parents have a leesmap, and we're three weeks behind, so I'm guessing we still need to get that issue. (Reply to this)(Parent)