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	doctorcal 2004-05-27 10:20 am UTC (link)
	(I know someone who went out with the OP over there. Don't know the OP though.) I don't think it's that wanky - a bit heated maybe, but not really wanky. Even with the swastika thing you can see where the poster is coming from. And I'd really like to go into this a bit more, but unfortunately cold medicine is screwing with my system :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	spiderflower 2004-05-27 11:29 am UTC (link)
	Oh, no, it's hella wanky all right. I think you just have to be more familiar with the context; it's sometimes hard to see from a non-NZ perspective. (I love your icon!) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	doctorcal 2004-05-27 12:08 pm UTC (link)
	Fair enough - I'm not really familiar with the history. There isn't really one single Aboriginal culture so we don't tend to get the same sort of indigenous wank in Aus. Either way it's educational :) Sorry, I mean OMG HOW DARE YOU MOCK ME SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE FROM NZ. (Thanks! This icon is appropriate in so many ways. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spiderflower 2004-05-27 12:50 pm UTC (link)
	!!! An Australian! Our moment of shared peace over, now we fight to the death. You will use the power of gum trees and Vegemite, I will use the power of our crappy rugby teams this year. En garde! ~~Never mind I was born in Sydney.~~ (I just love Strong Sad's expression in it. Hell, I just love Strong Sad's expressions.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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spiderflower
2004-05-27 11:27 am UTC (link)

MAORI-PAKEHA WANK.

SPOOGE ON, MY TANGATA WHENUA.

If one were to list all the Maori wank where the Maori went berserk-insane about the "Pakeha" doing something (excuse me, asstards I'm not a "Pakeha"; that word has similar connotations these days to gaijin. I am a New Zealander) it would take years.

Maybe I've been part of this long, unhappy argument too long, but the anti-"Pakeha" commentary on this thread actually made me ragingly angry.

Land of the Long White Wank.

There is a strong 'bad' inherent in Pakeha culture

FUCK YOU. IN THE EYE.

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	khym_chanur 2004-05-27 12:27 pm UTC (link)
	There is a strong 'bad' inherent in Pakeha culture... Seems to me that he's doing the same thing he's accusing Pakeha culture of: seeing a dichotomy and elevating one half above the other. And he also talks about "sane", implying that it's better than "insane", rather than two sides of the same coin... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

spiderflower
2004-05-27 12:54 pm UTC (link)

The thing is, there barely is Pakeha culture. Pakeha culture? What culture? You're looking at a massed throng of South Africans, Brits, Irish, a shitload of people from the Asian regions, all under the same united banner of New Zealanders.

Though America has its faults, at least if you eat grits and corn and celebrate Thanksgiving and say the Pledge of Allegiance you are accepted with tears in your eyes as fully American, All Hail The Flag. I'm an unwanted outsider in my own country (angst angst emo emo).

Oh, well. Country wanks are often the spoogiest.

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	khym_chanur 2004-05-27 01:33 pm UTC (link)
	Wait, so Pakeha includes the Japanese, Chinese, Indians (not Native Americans) and all? When he's talking about dualistic thinking, is he just talking about European/American culture, or is he talking about everyone but his culture? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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spiderflower, 2004-05-27 01:37 pm UTC

	sorchar 2004-05-27 01:34 pm UTC (link)
	No. No grits. Grits are purely a Southern thing and even many of us Southerners hate them. No grits ever. Grits make the baby Jesus wish he was still breastfed. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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princessdot, 2004-05-28 08:10 am UTC

Lye! -

zozma, 2004-05-27 10:53 pm UTC

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smit, 2004-05-28 02:19 am UTC

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panthea, 2004-05-28 04:07 am UTC

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blue_linnet, 2004-05-28 06:40 am UTC

Not the same thing, -

amakath, 2004-05-28 10:49 am UTC

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panthea, 2004-05-28 04:11 am UTC

Grits! -

norabombay, 2004-05-27 04:19 pm UTC

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smo, 2004-05-27 04:34 pm UTC

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crickets, 2004-05-27 07:14 pm UTC

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sorchar, 2004-05-28 12:19 am UTC

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crickets, 2004-05-28 01:03 am UTC

I love you. And smo. Y'all got taste. -

wankprophet, 2004-05-27 09:40 pm UTC

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littlebitca, 2004-05-27 09:57 pm UTC

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wankprophet, 2004-05-27 10:03 pm UTC

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sorchar, 2004-05-28 12:13 am UTC

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Grits -

deoridhe, 2004-05-27 09:44 pm UTC

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sorchar, 2004-05-28 12:04 am UTC

meshou
2004-05-28 02:59 am UTC (link)

Yeah, but that's fairly unique.

For instance, in Japan, if you are half Japanese, you aren't Japanese. If you were born in Japan, live all your life there, but are not full blooded Japanese, you're not Japanese. Same with China, and most societies where lineage and social rank are emphasized.

They do sort of have a legit point. It is vital to their culture that only certian people are in it. If you loved it, you'd respect that this is sacred thing, and insulting to get just 'cause it "looks neat," or even if "I identify with them." The tattoos are their identity, and having it if you aren't Maori'd be wrong in ways we can't really fathom.

However, the whole "our culture's superior" attitude is bullcrap.

*towels off*

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spiderflower, 2004-05-28 03:44 am UTC

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	doctorcal 2004-05-27 01:13 pm UTC (link)
	Hang on, I missed that before. Strong Bad is inherent in Pakeha culture? gets not exactly consistent mental image of Strong Bad leading the haka head a splodes (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spiderflower 2004-05-27 01:23 pm UTC (link)
	If Strong Bad is the point of Pakeha culture? OH BOY, I AM SIGNING UP FOR THAT. Come back drcal!! Come back drcal's seester! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	smo 2004-05-27 02:30 pm UTC (link)
	Someone needs to do that icon. It would PWN. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sorchar 2004-05-27 01:46 pm UTC (link)
	Eyah. It happens in America too - if someone who's white shows an interest in anything from another ethnic background, they're liable to get shit on by other whites and non-whites alike. (I'm not talking about people who are just posing, btw, or acting out of the ubiquitous "white guilt", but people who feel a genuine and soul-deep pull to a non-white culture.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2004-05-27 02:33 pm UTC (link)
	Sometimes even if you are from that ethnic background, you get shit. Some people will try to make there be a pecking order so that they're 1337er [ethnicity] Than Thou, and it bugs the crap out of me. "Matrilineal descent," my ass. I do TOO count as Jewish. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sorchar 2004-05-27 02:57 pm UTC (link)
	It's really bizarre how people compartmentalize themselves like that. I'm not innocent of it either, by any means, but it's a behavior that's always puzzled me even when I was engaging in it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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smo, 2004-05-27 07:29 pm UTC

but you won't fool the children of the revolution - allen, 2004-05-27 05:30 pm UTC

Re: but you won't fool the children of the revolution - coreopsis, 2004-05-27 08:44 pm UTC

Re: but you won't fool the children of the revolution - allen, 2004-05-27 09:19 pm UTC

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tianxiaode, 2004-05-27 10:51 pm UTC

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	bishounenhuntrs 2004-05-27 08:41 pm UTC (link)
	"Matrilineal descent," my ass. I do TOO count as Jewish. Yes, you do! And don't you ever tell you otherwise! I mean it. You're in my 'tribe' weather they like it or not. huggle (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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smo, 2004-05-27 08:46 pm UTC

deoridhe
2004-05-27 09:52 pm UTC (link)

I think you are!!! 8) Stupid mothers not converting. ;)

Asatru has similar shit; there's a whole bunch of "Germanic Folk Soul" enthusiasts who somehow seem to think anyone pale must have it. Fucking racists. I'll give you your Germanic Folk Kick In The Ass.

My kindred and I want to start up a webpage selling "Authentic Germanic Folk Soul" for those of non-Germanic heritage who want to have it. ^_^ I'm figuring high fructose corn syrup and a little glitter, and we're good to go! Of course, those wonderful people who are half German, half African need not apply. 8P They already have it, no matter what the ~~fuckin' racists~~ Asatru Pure Race Believers might think.

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	amasaglajax 2004-05-27 11:42 pm UTC (link)
	It's even worse being biracial in America. I'm half Dominican, half Yugoslavian (child of immigrants). I have pale skin, brown eyes, and fine brown hair. I get SO MUCH SHIT for "acting white." And I live in the Bronx, "ghetto central." Fuck you. I'm literate. That's not exclusive to TEH WITEY. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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necronomist
2004-05-28 02:41 am UTC (link)

I feel your pain. Somewhat. I have a friend who is engaged, and the rabbi who knew her fiance from boyhood isn't going to marry them. Her mother went through a Reform conversion, and that is apparently sketchy. Feh. Why do I want to convert again? Right. That weird magnetic pull toward Judaism.

~~But hey, if I don't convert, there is always Irish wank. Never mind which county my grandfather came from, to the Irish, I will always be a Yank~~

Er, word.

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panthea, 2004-05-28 04:38 am UTC

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smo, 2004-05-28 02:17 pm UTC

terminal_frost
2004-05-28 06:56 am UTC (link)

Eyah. It happens in America too - if someone who's white shows an interest in anything from another ethnic background, they're liable to get shit on by other whites and non-whites alike. (I'm not talking about people who are just posing, btw, or acting out of the ubiquitous "white guilt", but people who feel a genuine and soul-deep pull to a non-white culture.)

Yeah I hear ya.

I got a similar speech from some lady I used to know, saying how "no amount of interest in the Native American culture will make you Native; that no matter how much you like it (the culture), you're still not a Native person".

But I just happen to LIKE the culture and want to learn about it; I'm not trying to steal it.

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	khym_chanur 2004-05-28 12:11 am UTC (link)
	Hmm, apparently Pakeha now means "anything BUT Maori." So don't feel left out. So does that mean that Zen Buddists are also TEH EVOL OPRESSORS? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	spiderflower 2004-05-28 03:48 am UTC (link)
	Goddamn those Zen buddhists! (Reply to this)(Parent)

gal_montag
2004-05-28 01:05 am UTC (link)

I think I can understad that. Sadly, I don't know much about the history of the Maori people, but if colonization did to them what it did to Native Americans it probably sucks to watch your way of life get squashed and something new taught to your children who then forget the old ways and then the people who squashed your way of life appropriate it because it's stylin' or whatever.

But I could be totally talking out of my ass here because I don't know if that's what happened.

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spiderflower
2004-05-28 03:47 am UTC (link)

The colonization of NZ did a fair bit of crap to the Maori, but nowhere near the same scale as the American Indians got. There's also more than a faint smell of pandering in today's New Zealand society, where Maori culture is actually shoved down our throats to the point where it is a part of our daily lives and we're taking part in it whether we want to or not, to the point where all the signs at my university are half in English and half in Maori. There's sure as holy heck no squashing of their culture.

Don't worry about talking out your butt. This is very esoteric, yawningly boring stuff.

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