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I never said I was a victim of ([info]circumstance) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2004-06-10 14:27:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:energetic

feminists behaving wankily
It all started with a post to [info]feminist containing a hypothetical situation that may or may not be considered rape. Commenters weigh in on both sides ("It's rape! She didn't consent!"/"It's not rape! She implied consent!"). There's some intelligent conversation, but there's plenty of wank as well.

ETA: Dammit, the original post is friendslocked. (Although if you really want to see it you could just join the community.)

Things only get worse from there on in.

Another post is made mocking the first post, which invites plenty more wank:

"Did you enjoy picking on people in school, too?"

"He clearly should have said something if he didn't want to get fucked in the ass."

Yet another post is made on the subject, and the same old arguing and namecalling ensues.

Finally, a mod posts, asking people to use cut tags when posting about rape, because it may be triggering to some people. A very wanky post was made in response to the moderator's request, basically saying you shouldn't treat rape survivors with kid gloves, and if they can't handle reading about rape, tough. The post was unfortunately quickly removed, with this explanation.

And to top it all off, no wank would be complete without someone self-righteously leaving the community:

I bid you adieu. While I was hoping to be part of this community and find like-minded people who were willing to discuss the important issues of feminism in a positive and supportive way, I have not found such a community here.

Reading posts here just makes me angry and often I am more angry at the people here who are bickering rudely than at the anti-feminist world, the anger-target one would expect...

thus, I shall leave you to your own petty arguements and discussions about how to spell woman, and I will fight sexism, etc, with the support of others..


*sigh*


(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2004-06-10 11:34 pm UTC (link)
The original post is friendslocked...

(Reply to this)


[info]littlest_lurker
2004-06-10 11:44 pm UTC (link)
Looks like this post has been locked ;_;

Pity, I was looking forward to rape-wank that wasn't in relation to RPS.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2004-06-11 12:15 am UTC (link)
Can anyone give the gist of it? I would like to know the hypothetical situation that was given.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]circumstance, 2004-06-11 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-11 01:14 am UTC
TMI flag - ataniell93, 2004-06-11 01:32 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-11 01:38 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-11 02:04 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-11 03:03 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-11 03:09 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]hobbitsexual, 2004-06-22 01:00 pm UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]seventy_three, 2004-06-11 03:04 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-11 03:08 am UTC
Re: TMI flag - [info]hobbitsexual, 2004-06-22 12:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-06-11 03:11 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-06-12 03:37 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-06-12 04:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-06-18 07:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2004-06-22 12:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-06-25 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2004-06-22 12:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-06-23 06:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2004-06-22 12:57 pm UTC

[info]ecchaniz0r
2004-06-11 06:24 pm UTC (link)
Or milk? :D

(dunnanunnanunnanunna dunnanunnanunnanunna COW RAPE~)

...Sorry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]renata_hpjc
2004-06-11 12:23 am UTC (link)
If someone would like a replacement topic in the "feminists behaving wankily category", you might want to check out

Do tampons oppress women?

It's priceless, and the OP soooo needs to be mocked, but I have no time on my home computer in the next few days. Any takers? Pleaseeeee?

Renata

(deleted and reposted because I a can't keep my html straight)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iris
2004-06-11 04:06 am UTC (link)
Deleted...dammit, I really wanted to see what was up with that one, too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]wankprophet
2004-06-11 12:24 am UTC (link)
Whenever I read lines like:

"Millions of women have been raped because they chose to be a little more human and trust a man enough to go out on a dat with him

I don't buy that we can end rape by asserting our power or visualizing world trust.

Only men can end rape. By not raping" (zorah)

and her subsequent insistent implication that there's a unicock that all men work together in, I just have to ask: which men are some of these people talking about, exactly? Some random man who walks past them on the street? Their sons and fathers? Their sophmore history professor? Ralph Nader? The pope? I'm not sure exactly where they're coming from, sociologically. Sure some men can tell their male friends, "Hey, rape ain't cool!" But I don't imagine most men -- regardless of pre-existing attitudes that can and should be improved -- are sitting around waiting for peer pressure to keep them from rape. Yeah, there are miscarriages of justice, but when I was growing up, rape was considered a fucking crime, not some obscure male version of menses.

Instead of "visualizing world trust", she suggests we form a coalition to do fucking interventions at frat houses (yeah, cause all frat boys rape) and tell people rape is wrong. Way to hit your target audience there...focusing on random males you've never met and have no reason to believe would be predisposed to do anything worse than jaywalking. Or may be gay. And still not disposed to commit crimes. Yeah, education is a must...but fucking blaming every male for the acts of some males is gonna make those interventions she wants r-e-e-e-a-a-l uncomfortable.

Oh, wait, we're all potential rapists. Damn, I keep forgetting that part of the Testosterone Code. I need to brush up, but I'm sure the subliminal ads during football games will bring me back up to speed.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]bunny
2004-06-11 01:23 am UTC (link)
One out of ten American women gets raped during her life time. There is no reverse statistic on this one, but I am sure you can do the math. If you walk down a busy street then (statistically speaking) you will encounter at least one rapist.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-11 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]circumstance, 2004-06-11 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-06-11 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-06-11 09:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2004-06-11 01:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anatsuno, 2004-06-11 01:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2004-06-11 03:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seventy_three, 2004-06-11 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-11 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2004-06-12 01:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-12 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-12 08:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2004-06-12 09:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-12 11:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anatsuno, 2004-06-11 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-11 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2004-06-12 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-12 12:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2004-06-22 01:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seventy_three, 2004-06-11 01:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankprophet, 2004-06-11 05:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - meshou, 2004-06-11 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-06-11 09:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2004-06-11 03:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-06-12 02:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2004-06-11 01:14 pm UTC

[info]musette
2004-06-11 03:08 am UTC (link)
I'm completely going to get my feminist cred taken away for this, but a better way to prevent rape than randomly evangelising to groups of men is to teach women how to say no and how not to put themselves in situations where they may be (intentionally or unintentionally) forced to do something they don't want to. No one should ever be forced to do something they don't want, but when women are taught to be quiet and not want to offend men, you can't blame men all of the time if some women's idea of saying no is to not say or do anything.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]renata_hpjc, 2004-06-11 03:27 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-06-11 04:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-11 07:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-06-11 08:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2004-06-11 03:31 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-06-11 04:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-06-18 07:32 pm UTC

meshou
2004-06-11 03:29 am UTC (link)
I'm always amazed by people who forget all about female rapists. The general idea seems to be that:
  • Women aren't as oversexed as men (even though that's not true, and rape has nothing to do with sex).

  • Women aren't as violent as men (again, not strictly true-- it's just our power games are less often physical).

  • Women don't have the strength (even though rapists target the weak).

  • Women don't have the appropriate parts (which seems to really speak for the lack of imagination of people in general).
So only men can stop rapists? Bitch, please. I'd give her a lecture about triggering and oppressing the under-reporting victims of female rapists, but that seems to be the thing Fem!wank's made of.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-06-11 05:09 am UTC

[info]janegraddell
2004-06-11 04:54 am UTC (link)
Oh, wait, we're all potential rapists.

Yep. Except for the ones who are rape victims themselves. Oops, sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to mention that. I know it interferes with the All Men Are Rapists thesis. Despite the fact that male rape is a highly under-reported and under-recognized crime. And isn't even "rape" in many states. And that the support and resources available to female rape victims, flawed and backwards as they often are, are about a million times more readily available than those for male rape victims. When they report it, that is. Which isn't often. But, you know, don't mind them. They're only men.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-06-11 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2004-06-11 09:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cie_anthy, 2004-06-11 09:21 pm UTC
Off on a tangent-- *dons asbestos suit* - meshou, 2004-06-11 10:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-06-11 05:31 pm UTC
Gavin deBecker is my hero - [info]pyratejenni, 2004-06-11 06:10 pm UTC
Re: Gavin deBecker is my hero - [info]musette, 2004-06-11 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ragnarok, 2004-06-12 02:21 pm UTC
Re: Off on a tangent-- *dons asbestos suit* - [info]blue_linnet, 2004-06-13 07:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-06-11 05:17 pm UTC

[info]raisedbyhyenas
2004-06-11 05:18 pm UTC (link)
This woman is holding up a lighter and saying "You rock, my male brutha."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cleolinda
2004-06-11 12:47 am UTC (link)
and I will fight sexism, etc, with the support of others

"Hurry, Batgirl! To the Vaginamobile!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]mastervex
2004-06-11 01:11 am UTC (link)
Well, there's already a weinermobile...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]amand_r
2004-06-11 03:43 am UTC (link)
Yay! ICON!

I read your 15 minute Review. You are a gem among sand and dirty rocks. Or summat.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]flax
2004-06-11 05:53 pm UTC (link)
My first thought on seeing that was She's a REAL WOMAN, knowing the REAL ISSUES. They are her supporters. They fight sexism!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]blue_linnet
2004-06-11 08:30 am UTC (link)
Hmm. Interesting thread there. Wanky yes, but not just ridiculous, as there's a valid debate in there. Depending on who I'm talking to, I can be either on one side of the fence or the other, which is rather interesting. I talked to a woman one time online about some borderline scene in a book, and she said something like 'well, women to have to realise that men have urges and acting in a provocative fashion is asking for trouble'...this *shocked* me, and some people really seem to agree with that view. A lot of them are women. It freaks me out, because once you say one thing is putting yourself in a position where you have to 'expect' to be raped, it opens the door to more and more liberal interpretations.

On the other hand, I was flamed one time for suggesting that there was a grey area. That it was possible for a woman to feel violated, but the guy not to be a rapist. If he honestly believes that she consented, and she believes that she didn't--does that put him on the same level as someone who drags a woman into an alley, or drugs her unconscious? I'm going to say no, yet to some people 'feeling violated' seems to be synonymous with 'being raped'. The situation described in the post *could* be rape, or not. If she never protested, either physically or verbally, it could've been he'd have immediately stopped. or it could be he wouldn't have. It's unclear to me. 'Restraining position' though, makes it pretty questionable, unless he didn't realise that was what he was doing.

I think that some of the problem stems from the belief among both sexed (so not singling anyone out here) that women will say no when they mean yes. That often a 'no' is not really a 'no', but a 'persuade me'. And that's often true. I tend to think that if everyone took someone's 'no' as an immediate cue to stop whatever they were doing, people would stop saying 'no' when they don't mean it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2004-06-11 08:59 am UTC (link)
A lot of them are women. It freaks me out, because once you say one thing is putting yourself in a position where you have to 'expect' to be raped, it opens the door to more and more liberal interpretations.

Dan Savage touched upon this subject in his column and I think he made a good point:

If regret or getting swept up in the moment and giving verbal or non-verbal consent to something you didn't plan on (or didn't enjoy) is rape, well, then we're all rape victims and rapists.

You read the column here: http://www.thestranger.com/2001-12-13/savage.html

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-06-11 11:06 pm UTC
You Wanna See Wanky?
(Anonymous)
2004-06-11 05:37 pm UTC (link)
If you think the happenings of feminist (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist) are wanky, then you should check out what's going on in feminist_rage (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist_rage) - where post (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist_rage/231658.html) after post (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist_rage/231734.html) after post (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist_rage/232936.html) after post (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist_rage/233000.html) is being made on the Great Rape Debate. All this ending with zorah (http://www.livejournal.com/users/zorah) announcing: OMG! We got linked to on LJDrama! Quick - everyone delete their posts! (http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist_rage/233518.html)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: You Wanna See Wanky?
(Anonymous)
2004-06-11 07:59 pm UTC (link)
don't you have some children's show to jack off to?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

heh, feminists scare me.
(Anonymous)
2004-06-11 09:07 pm UTC (link)
talk about a club one wouldn't want to join even if they sent invites. martyrhood is a powerful weapon, but it's a bit sad that so many feminist-sorts think it's the only one a woman can wield. using it as a bludgeon in every discussion is just NOT productive, nor does it counter the stereotypical belief that feminists are just as weepy and emotionally-driven as other women. this discussion, in this non-lj community, has been more civil and interesting than what passes for discussion in lj's 'feminist' communities. go figure.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: heh, feminists scare me.
[info]blue_linnet
2004-06-11 11:36 pm UTC (link)
Well, to be fair to feminists, there are definitely anti-feminist men who have just as big martyr complexes on the same topic. (I'm thinking of the 'oh my god she didn't trust me because I'm a man! I'm not a rapist, why am I grouped with these men' when half the time the woman is trying to be safe by not giving out her number/not wanting to be alone in an elevator with a strange man/whatever)

The professionally aggrieved crop up in every segment of society, and are DAMNED ANNOYING. It's especially great when you get two groups battling it out with each other. 'no, I'm not oppressed!' 'no, *I* am!!'

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2004-06-12 12:48 pm UTC (link)
Maybe the post is friendslocked because it was meant to be seen by the community only. Don't you think it's rather shitty that you, clearly a member of said community, have linked non-members to such posts? And then encourage others who have no interest whatsoever in the community to join so they can read friendslocked posts? I hope I don't have anyone like you on my friends list or in any of my communities.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

We part on the square, dear 'Nonymouse
meshou
2004-06-12 01:10 pm UTC (link)
1) Slightly different in an open community with over a hundred members. You expect privacy? Don't put it on that much of the internet.

2) Much different in a community with posts that refer back to a locked post, since I could have figured out what the previous post was about just from the non-friendslocked posts. If it was such a secret in the community, why discuss it in the open?

Hell, she didn't even say who posted it. All wankers in the first bit of wank are protected. It's the open flamewar that's being wanked here. The first post was just "background for those who are already members."

We're all feminists here. Except for me. I'm a card carrying member of the patriarchy. I take care of the little cars.

or was that shriners...?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: We part on the square, dear 'Nonymouse - (Anonymous), 2004-06-12 04:00 pm UTC
Re: We part on the square, dear 'Nonymouse - [info]iczer6, 2004-06-12 11:38 pm UTC

[info]circumstance
2004-06-14 05:41 pm UTC (link)
I hope I don't have anyone like you on my friends list or in any of my communities.

Ditto. Have a nice day!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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