Ivy League Nerd PolitiWank
There's a lovely little Ivy League university on the borders of West Philadelphia. It's best known for being founded by the Demi-God of Philadelphia, churning out evil corporate types, killing young males with science, being buffaloed by the Wall Street Journal, and kicking out Candice Bergen -- thus setting her loose on the world.

One of the largest student groups on campus is the Science and Technology Wing (aka STWing). It's sort of a central clearinghouse for geeks and nerds. Which, of course, means its newsgroup is wanky as all get-out. I know this firsthand, being a member since September 1998. *shines non-existent membership badge*

On July 8th, a member of the group posted a link to the Drudge Report, and the noted-damn-near-everywhere "closeness" of the Johns (Kerry and Edwards, that is).

Immediately, homosexuality was brought up.

Roughly 220 posts follow, with references to Hitler, homosexuality, marriage, Republicans, Libertarians, Democrats, racism, immigration policy, the French, socialism, foreign aid, war, Iraq, Germany, John Locke, poor people, alcoholism, drugs, bestiality, Pat Buchanan, unwed parents, crack babies, adoption, polygamy, Lance Armstrong, George Bush, Michael Moore, civil unions, Congress, social security, proper netiquette when posting to newsgroups, and whether or not illegal aliens should be left to die in the streets and have their houses burn down because they don't deserve hospital service and fire coverage since they DON'T PAY TAXES OMG EVAL BIATCHS.

Keep in mind that this newsgroup averages about 30 posts a month during the school year.

Choice quotes (with linkage):

I think it's fair to be suspicious of a movement led by the likes of Pat Buchanan, who has praised Hitler for his rational immigration policy[1]. Perhaps it's unfair of me to denounce all such proponents as racist, but I think few support the notion of legal immigrants, even if they pay their taxes and pull their own weight. After all, America is for those of us whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower. My great great granddaddy didn't fight the British just to have some wetbacks come and take over his country, isn't that right?

* * * * *

See, what I said was that there are solid factual reasons for both criticizing current US policy and for at the very least the relatively small stature of the "threat'' that illegal immigrants pose to your way of life; that, in fact, it may be better for us all if we *do* use our tax money to put out fires, even if they are burning in the homes of illegal immigrants, since if we do not those fires will spread, just as it may be wise of us to educate those immigrants, at our own cost, since then those immigrants are more likely to find jobs in which they contribute to our economy and our way of life rather than, say, becoming criminals or day traders.

Now what you said, in response, was that you happen to think we all have it pretty good, that our country 0wnz0rs j00, and that all of what I said--complete with citations from CNN and other presumably-accurate sources--is just spin by the damn liberal media ("Hey, roadkill! Kids, we're eatin' dinner tonight!'').

See the difference? On the one side, we have facts and rational arguments, original or unoriginal as they may be (I certainly didn't pioneer the practice of criticizing US military spending; many other individuals also see a problem with attempting to maintain global hegemony through military force and intimidation rather than diplomacy and economic prowess).

Later, same post:

And no, repeating a view held by others is no shame, Roman; neither you nor I should be embarrassed to agree with other outspoken commentators. What I ridicule you for is not sharing the same views as anyone else, but for showing no rational thought, no ability to respond to my own points, no willingness to back your assertions with fact. What I ridicule you for is not regurgitation, but what you choose to regurgitate, the most trite, sugary platitudes of chest-thumping patriotic rhetoric to ever vomit from the mouth of an unthinking fool. That fool would be you.

* * * * *

More to the point, what the fuck have you ever done for this country, Roman Geykhman? Perhaps you've done quite a lot, and I don't know it, but it always seems that those who take the most pride in their countries have themselves accomplished the least. Have you earned what you have? Are you responsible for your country having a strong military, a global influence, an economic power?

* * * * *

My supposedly regurgitated and irrational rant is no more or less legitimate than your purportedly reasonable discussion. Everything you have said can be found in left-wing publications and the websites of groups that are, shall we say, somewhat out there. Your purported rational discussion is no more rational or irrational than what I'm saying.

* * * * *

Not *everything* the french love sucks... plus, their insanely long vacations sound good right about now... i wonder if edwards and kerry are considering taking one...

gore went for a european holiday once and came back with a "beard" - edwards and kerry might come back with... oh nevermind.

* * * * *

To conclude, these are hard questions that will affect how our country and the world will change in the next 50 years.  That, and there are too many wet-behind the ears, yellow bellied, liberal pinko flag burning godless communists in Stwing.

* * * * *

I'll stop making personal attacks when you start backing your arguments with fact, by the way. I'm not inherently an asshole--it's not genetic; I made a choice.

* * * * *

> I must apologize for my blatant defense of this country. It's been awfully
> good to me, and I suffer from the delusion that no matter how bad the
> liberal media makes us out to be, we still have it better than just about
> any other nation on this earth, and that anyone who is willing to work for
> it can share in that success.

Oops! I think I accidentally left my rational, fact-based discussion on your silly regurgitated troll. Sorry about that!


* * * * *

A homosexual couple can adopt and give an orphaned child a loving, supportive home. And as you said, it's not the state's business whether or not a couple is infertile. QED, bitch.

* * * * *

Bah.  Speculation-shmeculation.  I think the Catholic Church should trademark the term Marriage(tm) and sue the pants off queers when they Marry(tm) to help recoup losses to money-grubbing sexual abuse claimants. Whatever.  I should probably be working right now...

* * * * *

Well...  Let's just face it: the reason why incest is illegal has nothing to do with medical issues.  And if new legislation to ban it based on that were to arise, it would (hopefully) die in short order.  For the record, I'm against incest, but I'm also against eugenics [1].  (You know who else proposed eugenics?  HITLER!!  Oh wait, no!  Damn your treachery, Ian Magill! [2])

* * * * *

Your disregard for tradition and disrespect for the culture that produced those traditions is disturbing.

I will no longer continue this debate with you.

The reply, from Dan to Roman:

Then my work here is done.
Seriously, dude. You aren't going to win supporters with that attitude. Especially since anyone who is offended by the notion of *public nudity* (in the context of public baths, for instance, which the US has as well)  is a puritanical jackass.

Ever been to the gym? Ever see men getting naked in front of other men, who are complete and total strangers?

Oh, heavens! What are we to do?

The rebuttal, from Roman to Dan:

I'd much rather be a "puritanical jackass" than an antiestablishment neohippie anarchist who likes to hurl accusations against anyone whose views differ from his own.
Remember how this started: I said that the European model of cradle-to- grave Welfare State an open borders is likely to backfire. You just started ranting about how racism and bigotry motivate everything the US does.

Good luck in your future political career. See where wild accusations and implications get you.

* * * * *
Dan again:

Apparently, my believe that some non-hellbound cultures have public baths (and that in America, some people even get naked in front of strangers in gym locker rooms) is ``disturbing'' and the product of sick and twisted mind.

So any shred of hope I had that Roman might be a reasonable person is gone. How do people like this get into Penn? If he's smart enough for Penn, he should be smart enough to know that people do, in fact, get naked in gym locker rooms...

Reply from Roman, again:

Oh my God!
Listen to yourself!

You said you support public nudity. You said you support polygamy. You said said that just because it's commonly accepted in other cultures, it should be accepted here too. The real question is how to people like YOU get past high school. I'd imagine you'd be too busy railing against the injustices of the world to do something as humdrum and ordinary as take exams and write entrance essays.


I'm stopping there. There's just too much.

This just in! An "apology" from one of the participants... but he still keeps going after posting it...