OMG I'm an author so listen to me!!! - Pagan Wank
I'm leaving this community. CONVINCE ME NOT TO, DAMN YOU!!!

anotherjen is important. She has written pagan books. Writing pagan books means you are wise. When you are wise, all of the pagan community should listen to you, for you are important. Unfortunately for her, most of the NonFluffyPagans don't really agree with her.

"My Last Post
I'm going to leave this community after reading the responses to this post.

When I first joined Nonfluffypagans, I really thought that the purpose of the community would be to discuss ways to make our Pagan practice realistic and substantial, maybe incorporating stuff about dark Gods and initiatory passages, the value of necessary destruction, ways to make a real difference in the world rather than just dancing 'round the maypole.

But over the months I've belonged, I see that the group is really geared mainly toward tearing people down. Nothing makes you feel quite so good about yourself as being snarky at folks behind their backs, does it? Only it's worse - you're not really doing it behind their backs; you're doing it in a public forum, so it will probably get back to them eventually. Even if not, I say words have power. And even if you don't put your will behind it, you are still slinging anger/dislike/hatred in the direction of a real person.

This doesn't just apply to people I happen to respect, like Oberon. I'm not a big fan of Silver Ravenwolf's books either, but you know what? She's still a human being, and she doesn't deserve abuse.

Of course there are both light and dark in the world, both necessary and both sacred. Shit happens. But that doesn't mean we need to add to that shit. If you don't like the way people do their thing, if you think it might have negative consequences in the world, then write to them and try constructively and kindly to convince them otherwise. Or just do your own thing in the world that you think will have a better result. But bitching about people and practices you don't like will have no useful effect. It's a waste of time, bad magic, and I wash my hands of it."

Responses are varied.

"This is not about light and dark/good and evil; it's about the highly visible "Wal-Mart" mentality of pop-pagans that are making the rest of us who are sincere in our studies look like children."
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"Are we really "adding to the shit" or calling people on theirs?"
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"This smacks of a temper tantrum. If you truly believe that "bitching about people and practices you don't like will have no useful effect," then it's also true that bitching about nonfluffypagans will have no useful effect.

Stay if you will, go if you must..."
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"there is a very easy way for [Oberon and Silver Ravenwolf] to prevent the abuse.

stop doing ridiculous things and consider the consequences of their actions."
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"Seeing all the fragile egos in this thread has helped me make up my mind about joining this community.

Thanks, Jen! :o)"
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Most of Jen's responses seem to center around "I know these people and they're wonderful," "I wrote a book and am smart, so do what I say," or "Don't be a hater."

Examples:
Well, it's hard for me to be completely objective in answering your question, since I've been in the Pagan community for over a decade, and all that time I've known people like Oberon and Andras, and know they're good folks. I consider them my friends. So they have more than earned my respect. I'm not saying you have no right to post whatever you like about whomever you like. I'm saying that it, in and of itself, is a way of spewing negativity into the general direction of that person, and accomplishes nothing but self-aggrandisement.

Believe me, I'm with you when it comes to accountability. If you'd read any of my books, you'd know that. But somehow I manage to convey that without personally attacking anyone.
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"...Finally, I said that if someone disagrees with Oberon's or someone else's beliefs/practices, then it's much more effective to DO something about it rather than attack them. In that same way, I feel that if someone wants George Bush out of office, then s/he should spend his/her time volunteering for the DNC, or at least contributing financially, rather than guffawing over Dubya's foibles. In other words, if you don't like Oberon's book, write your own damn book. If you don't like his school, start one you think is better. Or at the very least, state your objections in a polite and reasonable way.
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As I said in an earlier response, I don't believe it's going to have much effect, but I just wanted to let folks know where I'd gone and why. I hardly think you can call it a temper tantrum (implying lack of forethought) when I've belonged to this community and been pissed off by it for months, before choosing to take this step.
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A) Satire, IMO, is clever and makes people think. I believe that this group tends toward is pure and simple playground bullying, which has no useful effect.

B) My opinion may have more weight for some than that of your random LJ-er, since I write books on Paganism. Plus, I've been a member for quite some time, so I thought it would make sense to tell folks why I'm leaving.

C) There was also a teeny tiny chance that my post might cause someone to wake up and staunch the flow of vitriol.
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Ahhh, I love pagans. In no other place can you find such a delicious combination of self-rightious indignation and self-importance over such small things.

Edit: Thanks to the lovely otf wankers cimorene111 and visp, my Asatru Christian defensiveness has been punctured. *sob* I have repented of this statement. Pagans are not the worst for this; knitters are. Pagans are just in the top ten.

P.S.
Pagan author name suggestions (via the glorious fandom wank). Sorry, but I felt the need to collect these; they're wonderful!!! (From cleolinda, pokecheck, phosfate, sadisticferret, an anonymouse or three, iczer6, and myself. I love you all, even me. Muah! Muah!)

Zinc Squirrelgoat, Pewter Marmotseal, Tungsten Newtchickadee, Lead Eaglewombat, Boron Vulturebear, Boron Vulturebear, Aluminum Pidgeonfrog, Golden Pandamouse, Tin Condorweasel, Strontium Ponycrane, Iron Falconchinchilla, Nitrogen Lionmink, Steel Coyotebass, Argon Jackeltoad, Plutonium Parrotwalrus, Titanium Zebratrout, Phosphate Groundsquirreldrake, Bismuth Dolphincow, Nickel Hedgehogbunny, Uranium donkeyferret, Scandium Koalashark, Arsenic Kittyduck, Beryllium emutoad, Ununquadium Tigertit, Mercury Squidmoth, Lithium Lambbull, Antimony Shrikeweasel, Nylon Hipporhinostricow, Radon Rabbitfox, Gold Aligatorrat, Platinum Squidox, and Fluorine Cuttlebooby.