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(Anonymous)
2004-09-01 07:29 am UTC (link)

Um, yeah I am the roommate mentioned above, and I was directed to this page by the roommate who posted. Eh, really the whole thing is a blow up between a few people because this girl uses a small ammount of sex appeal to get what she wants (pouty face, that "I'm a weak little girl" act, and rubbing her breasts against the guy in question)and then demands respect because she is a woman (from what I can tell it's more of a "I can act how I want because I'm a woman, so I'm better than you" mentality) and doesn't understand why it isn't given. Other than that it's been a bit of a free for all....enjoy.

	elanor_durall 2004-09-01 12:34 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I didn't know that modesty = respect. Guess I slept through that class in Sunday school. (Reply to this)

	llama_treats 2004-09-01 02:11 pm UTC (link)
	Personally, I'd be less likely to respect the guy who only does things because some girl flirts with him than the girl who's flirting. At least she's getting something out of it. The guy, on the other hand, is just hoping his "generosity" will lead to sex. (Not that it ever does. When will they ever learn? Not soon, I hope.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-09-02 03:28 am UTC (link)
	that is why I only do something for someone if I feel like it. But then again I'm an abnormal male, sex/promises of sex don't work as motivation upon me. Swedish Fish / Guinness, thats a differnt story..... d_d_d (Reply to this)(Parent)

	smo 2004-09-01 02:23 pm UTC (link)
	"I got your mom the last time I was up" God help me, but I chuckled at that. That said, here's a tip to the OP: if the girls you date pull shit like that, you're dating the wrong girls. Do yourself a favor and go out with a woman. We're much more likely to act like grownups. (Reply to this)

sagralisse
2004-09-01 05:10 pm UTC (link)

If you think about why the guy thinks this is offensive, it really speaks well for him and some of our cultural changes over the past few decades.

Hyper-awareness of a woman's gender in general non-dating situations was big in the 1950's, and it went hand-in-hand with the pressure for women to fit into neat little low-salaried man-pleasing roles. Part of the success of the feminist movement is that today a woman dentist, banker, college professor or police officer can go through the course of a work day thinking about her job without every single interaction with men centering around how feminine/sexy/sexually attractive they think she is.

The OP seems to have embraced the concept that people are people first, men and women second. He extends that to his friends. The idea that he would give a friend preferential treatment because of her gender or the proximity of her tits is sort of an attack on his pride.

I'm liking him better than you-ain't-the-boss-of-me-I-do-what-I-want girl. Sure, she has the right to play the ingenue or bombshell or whatever, but there's no guarantee that she's going to get a positive response from every man she runs across. And hopefully one day man-bashing will go the way of the pointy bra.

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quinctia
2004-09-01 05:46 pm UTC (link)

Just from the original post though, I can't see that it was necessarily sexual manipulation. I've done stuff like that to other girls I know, the hair twirling pretty-please bit, and it's just a bit of joking around.

Without knowing the whole background of the situation, it seems like the OP's mind actually IS jumping to sex and gender without any other provocation.

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	As far as I can tell... bardic_feline 2004-09-01 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	The girl in question was purposefully being manipulative. I could be wrong, but that's the conclusion I drew from her initial reply. (Although I will admit being a touch biasd in the OPs favor, so I'm really not the world's best judge in this matter...I'll shut up now.) ::Slinks off:: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: As far as I can tell... quinctia 2004-09-01 06:31 pm UTC (link)
	Still sounds like the OP overreacted, though, but maybe I'm just weird. I've flirted a lot more heavily than that with platonic friends just for shits and giggles. So it's kinda messed up to me that something so small was both intended as manipulation and received as hugely offensive. o.o (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: As far as I can tell...

sagralisse
2004-09-01 06:54 pm UTC (link)

If the girl in question is joking around, she should probably eventually realize that he's not getting the joke.

I mean, turning the situation around, if the joke was about a guy pretending to hit on a girl and being very suggestive, it'd be the guy's responsibility to recognize the signals that his "joke" wasn't appreciated. If he continued invading a woman's personal space and insisting that it was a joke, most women would label him as a sleazebag.

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Re: As far as I can tell...

quinctia
2004-09-01 07:24 pm UTC (link)

Oh, I get that. A joke's not a joke when it's not funny. I just can't believe that the first situation is even considered suggestive. I wouldn't even think that, honestly. To me, the idea would be like me going postal on a guy trying to help me open a bottle or something that I couldn't open (I have no hand strength whatsoever), and going "I'm a manly man RAWR." So now I'm wondering if I'm weird, or...

I get the beef, I just don't see how the situation leads up to it, so it seems like everyone here is being wanky, both the OP and the girl. ^^;

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Re: As far as I can tell...

vasaris
2004-09-01 07:48 pm UTC (link)

Keeping in mind that the OP is just using the Coke thing as an example... his problem appears to be that he thinks it's stupidly manipulative for a woman to attempt to use his hormones in order to ask for something, particularly in a situation where the manipulation is basically uncalled for.

I've known a few women like that and have to admit they drive me up a wall too. It isn't so much the flirting itself that's problematic, it's the flirting only for a purpose. One suspects, from his tone, that the 'flirting' he has a problem with is when there's no reason for it other than 'I want something from you.' Not because she finds him attractive and interesting, but because she wants a service.

And he (in my opinion) fairly accurately points out that if women use this tactic frequently, bitching about how men only see them as sex objects is ludicrous because the ones who *do* use this tactic (flirting only to get something) are playing into and playing up the stereotype.

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Re: As far as I can tell...
(Anonymous)
2004-09-02 03:43 am UTC (link)

I won't even spiel in detail about it, but similar to the guy, I find it hits a nerve when women act flirtacious and/or mousy just to try and get me/others to do things for her. THat tactic was cute back in high school, but it's pretty annoying when an adult does it. Contrary to common beliefs men don't always think with thier penis.

"Now now, lets not have double standards. One is good enough.." --George Carlin

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This situation isn't suggestive?

sagralisse
2004-09-01 08:25 pm UTC (link)

Why is it that they feel that the only way to get something from a man is to press up against his body in the most provocative way imaginable (short of actually jerking him off) and whisper in his ear what she wants, unless of course what she wants is the sex, in which case it's cool to ask like that.

If you turned that around, you wouldn't have "I'm a manly man RAWR." You'd have some guy pushing his dick up against you.

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Re: This situation isn't suggestive?

quinctia
2004-09-01 08:57 pm UTC (link)

Because the described situation was pouting and talking in a little girl voice?

Female friend: Hey, Gabe (said while twirling hair and looking at me with a pouty face) could you please (said rather baby-talk-ish) get me a coke? Pretty please?
Me: Um... ask me like a grown up and maybe. And I also love how you added "pretty please" on there before I shot you down. Now start back from the beginning.

What you quoted was the actual going off! That would be like saying a guy was doing everything short of pressing his dick against you, when he was just doing some stereotypical-to-the-gender posturing.

I'm talking about his example, here. His rant is in generalities, and I'm talking about the specific example making me go...WTF!

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	Re: This situation isn't suggestive? sagralisse 2004-09-01 09:44 pm UTC (link)
	What you quoted was part of his "case study," which I understood to be a hypothetical situation. (Reply to this)(Parent)