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Dan Fogelberg's ([info]llama_treats) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2004-11-08 12:42:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Irredeemable

Gay. It's the new black. Except not so much.
An anonymous commenter pointed the following out to me. Enjoy.

Msscribe makes a post stating "It's time to get black, gays!"

There's a lot of "Yeah! You go, sister!"

But of course there are those that disagree...

And those who get wanky and tell Msscribe "Basically, you look like a white chick so what the fuck do you know?" (since Msscribe explains in her first post that she's passed for white before)...

And the obligatory "It's a choice to be gay!" post.

Five pages and counting.



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

*wanks away happily*
[info]lush_rimbaud
2004-11-08 09:09 pm UTC (link)
OMG, the people using "ze," "zer," "ve," and "ver" instead of "he" and "his"...

*sporks out eyes*

Also, am I the only person who's really irritated by people who capitalize Gay and Black? Argh.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
kroki_refur
2004-11-08 09:39 pm UTC (link)
OMG, the people using "ze," "zer," "ve," and "ver" instead of "he" and "his"...


Seriously, at first I thought it was just a rash of Dutch people...

Also, am I the only person who's really irritated by people who capitalize Gay and Black?

No.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]slackerbitch
2004-11-08 09:57 pm UTC (link)
Do I want to know what those pronouns are?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]julia
2004-11-08 10:00 pm UTC (link)
They're gender neutral pseudo-pronouns, I think...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *wanks away happily*
redwarrior
2004-11-08 10:13 pm UTC (link)
Yes, for FUCK'S SAKE there is NOT a country called "Gayland"! Or "Blackland"!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]moonjaguar
2004-11-08 11:43 pm UTC (link)
I knew a guy named Gayland...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]cleolinda
2004-11-09 01:27 am UTC (link)
Woe.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]mistressrenet
2004-11-09 03:36 pm UTC (link)
I would totally vacation in Gayland. Or Blackland, probably.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]lcsbanana
2004-11-09 12:13 am UTC (link)
What exactly is wrong with referring to someone as they wish to be referred to, ie, indeterminate/third/other gender? And what is wrong with adapting your language to fill gaps, like the lack of a gender-neutral third person singular pronoun? I find 'ze' to be quite handy for such purposes.

And as far as capitalization, I again defer to the preferences of the person I'm speaking with, if they're a member of said group. So, talking with friend T., "Black" is capitalized, since that's what she does, and I think she has rather more right to name herself than I do. I don't capitalize "gay," but I'm queer so I get to pick. And I would expect people talking about me to use the nomenclature I prefer, just as I would do for them.

In other news, msscribe is a twat with a valid *political* point and apparently zero awareness of actual real people's lives, in addition to possessing all the tact and persuasive charm of a sledgehammer.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]julia
2004-11-09 12:49 am UTC (link)
It'd be fine if there was a single set of these sorts of pronouns. The fact that there's seventy-billion differant gender-neutral psuedo-pronouns is enough to give anyone a headache.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]pokecheck
2004-11-09 01:12 am UTC (link)
You could always use the ever-popular "it."

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]lcsbanana
2004-11-09 02:47 am UTC (link)
this is problematic, i admit. if only english had a french-type governing authority! we'd have a full set of pronouns, and no one would ever use quote marks for emphasis again.

in the meantime, however, i'll take a moment of lexical confusion over telling people that i get to decide what gender they are.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]lush_rimbaud
2004-11-09 04:19 am UTC (link)
I'm not trying to tell anybody that I get to decide what gender they are. I wouldn't even have objected particularly if the person had been referring to a specific transgendered person who preferred to be referred to as "ze" or "ve."

In this case, IIRC, the person was just using the random made-up pronouns as the default pronoun, because, you know, a fairy dies every time someone uses "he" as the default English pronoun. And I'm sorry, I don't care if I'm disrespecting other people's identities, that still makes me want to throw a rock at him.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily* - (Anonymous), 2004-11-09 06:01 am UTC
Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]julia
2004-11-09 04:37 am UTC (link)
I just don't see it, I'm afraid. I'll gladly agree to disagree with you, though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]kijikun
2004-11-09 12:59 am UTC (link)
Becuase most people won't understand what the FUCK you're saying?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]lcsbanana
2004-11-09 02:51 am UTC (link)
well, the people complaining about it here seem to have understood just fine what the intent and meaning of those pronouns were--the people using "ze," "zer," "ve," and "ver" instead of "he" and "his"..., for example.

And if someone doesn't, a ten-second explanation will solve that problem for all time.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]kijikun
2004-11-09 03:11 am UTC (link)
Or you could just use the proper words.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily* - [info]lcsbanana, 2004-11-09 03:38 am UTC
Re: *wanks away happily* - [info]kijikun, 2004-11-09 03:46 am UTC
Re: *wanks away happily* - [info]llama_treats, 2004-11-09 05:21 am UTC
Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]llama_treats
2004-11-09 01:02 am UTC (link)
Yes, let's screw all the rules of grammar because they're now politically incorrect! Hooray!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily*
[info]lcsbanana
2004-11-09 02:57 am UTC (link)
The rules of grammar have been formed over centuries of English use, not handed down from heaven. A long while back, Anglo-Saxons stole their pronoun structure from the Vikings--many pronouns! not just one!--because it suited their needs. Most linguistic change is not that deep-rooted, but when "rules" need to change, they will.

And "politically incorrect" is a rather condescending way to refer to the concept that I don't get to decide what gender people are--they get to do that themselves. I don't call a Black person a Negro--well, unless ze specifically requested it, in which case I would go "...well, sure, okay..." I don't call a lesbian a dyke, unless she tells me to. Equally, if someone tells me they're neither male nor female, I'm not going to tell them that yes, they are, because I say so.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *wanks away happily about political correctness* - [info]llama_treats, 2004-11-09 03:06 am UTC
Re: *wanks away happily about political correctness* - [info]lcsbanana, 2004-11-09 03:39 am UTC
*wankwankwank* - [info]provetheworst, 2004-11-09 05:53 am UTC
Re: *wanks away happily about political correctness* - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2004-11-09 10:19 am UTC
This has very little to do with what you actually said. Sorry about that! ^^; - [info]glomobius, 2004-11-09 05:51 pm UTC
Re: This has very little to do with what you actually said. Sorry about that! ^^; - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2004-11-09 06:17 pm UTC
Re: This has very little to do with what you actually said. Sorry about that! ^^; - [info]glomobius, 2004-11-09 06:19 pm UTC
Re: *wanks away happily about political correctness* - [info]glomobius, 2004-11-09 05:52 pm UTC
Using small words...
[info]darkrose
2004-11-09 12:20 am UTC (link)
Also, am I the only person who's really irritated by people who capitalize Gay and Black? Argh.

I capitalize Black when referring to my ethnicity to distinguish it from the color, since my skin is more of a mocha and is not, in fact, black. I'd say I'm sorry if that irritates you, but I'm not, so deal.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Using small words...
[info]kyuuketsukirui
2004-11-09 12:48 am UTC (link)
Eh, my skin's not white either, but I wouldn't say I'm White. If you say you're black no one's going to think your skin is literally black, just as no one's going to think my skin is literally white, so...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Using small words...
[info]darkrose
2004-11-09 12:53 am UTC (link)
No. However, if you were to say that you're, say, Irish, no one would question the capitalization. The point is that "Black" is not simply a color reference. It's a cultural identity. I'd say that I was "African-American," but that's too long and awkward.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Using small words... - (Anonymous), 2004-11-09 01:04 am UTC
Re: Using small words... - [info]darkrose, 2004-11-09 01:09 am UTC
Re: Using small words... - (Anonymous), 2004-11-09 01:13 am UTC
See previous post - [info]darkrose, 2004-11-09 01:23 am UTC
Re: See previous post - [info]dreamtoday, 2004-11-09 01:47 am UTC
Re: See previous post - [info]darkrose, 2004-11-09 01:55 am UTC
Re: See previous post - [info]dreamtoday, 2004-11-09 02:01 am UTC
Re: See previous post - [info]telesilla, 2004-11-09 04:20 am UTC
Re: See previous post - [info]dreamtoday, 2004-11-09 04:35 am UTC
Re: See previous post - [info]dreamtoday, 2004-11-09 04:50 am UTC
On culture, identity, and ignorance - [info]xturtle, 2004-11-09 01:55 am UTC
Re: On culture, identity, and ignorance - [info]redjackcash, 2004-11-09 04:58 am UTC
Derail! Derail! - [info]glomobius, 2004-11-09 06:02 pm UTC
Re: On culture, identity, and ignorance - [info]puipui, 2004-11-09 11:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kyuuketsukirui, 2004-11-09 01:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-11-09 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tekanji, 2004-11-09 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charabok, 2004-11-09 02:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kyuuketsukirui, 2004-11-09 02:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-12 02:30 pm UTC
Re: Using small words... - [info]glomobius, 2004-11-09 05:58 pm UTC
Re: Using small words... - (Anonymous), 2004-11-11 04:36 pm UTC
Re: Using small words...
[info]lush_rimbaud
2004-11-09 04:25 am UTC (link)
Well, you're free to do that, and I'm free to be irritated by it, just like I'm irritated by people who misuse semicolons and put apostrophes in plural nouns. That's the beauty of living in a free country: we're all equally at liberty to be irritated by each other.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Using words of varying size...
[info]xero_sky
2004-11-09 01:28 am UTC (link)
I imagine that using the terms Straight and White would make me a racist, homophobic bastard in some circles. So, yes.

Maybe the netspeak habit of never capitalizing anything, ever, for any reason, is actually a blow for universal equality. Who knew?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Using words of varying size...
[info]glomobius
2004-11-09 06:05 pm UTC (link)
**laugh** I think you're on to something, actually...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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