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ADR ([info]tekanji) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2004-11-16 08:14:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Feminist Civil War - you're either with the Liberals or the Radicals
This little wank starts out with a (mostly) harmless post in feminist that asks Are you a Liberal or a Radical?

mintogrubb then steps up to the plate with his two cents worth:
Someone has already said that this community is divided into radical feminists and liberal feminists.
It seems to me that the Rads, not the Libs, have the upper hand here, and want to frame every debate by their own terms of reference. So, do we Libs want to adress the balance, or start over with a Liberal Feminist community that will allow us to put our point over without being told that we are 'selling out', 'should be angry, and if we are not, we don't understand', and ought to fall in with the Radicals, who are the only source of ultimate wisdom?


He goes on to cite a story where a father, angry his ex-wife for divorcing him, killed both the woman and his son.

The spooge begins to fly:
hallelujah snarks and then adds, Why do you want to divide feminists? There aren't sides : It's not a war.
joelandrewtyson observes, That story doesn't seem to support your case at all. What does an insane guy killing his family have to do with patriarchy? You're comparing apples and big, huge crazy watermellons.

More people poke holes in mintogrubb's murder story and characterization of Liberals and Radicals.

And calebsdoodee dukes it out with kamuela about the irony of the statement All generalizations are wrong.

Also, don't miss the obligatory Let's end this civil war before it starts. We're all here because we're feminists. End of story. post.


(Post a new comment)


[info]xero_sky
2004-11-16 10:15 pm UTC (link)
Therere over 20 different types of recorded feminist theories/branches. A few, just a FEW include:

Liberal, Marxist/Socialist, Radical, Multicultural, Lesbian, Postmodern, Post-Colonial, Psychoanalytic, Standpoint, Men's, Social Constructionist.

Then we go into gender theory, 1st, 2nd, 3rd wave feminism, postfeminism, etc.


This sort of thing, plus the word "womyn", are the reasons the feminist comm scares me. *shivers*


(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-11-17 12:59 am UTC (link)
What about wimmyn then?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-11-17 01:00 am UTC (link)
PS- I love your icon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kookaburra
2004-11-17 01:52 am UTC (link)
Is there a place for those of us who just believe in equal treatment for both women AND MEN by the government? Or is that just crazy talk?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2004-11-17 02:50 am UTC (link)
To be honest, I think pretty much anything where the words "equal treatment" and "government" appear in the same sentence can be considered crazy talk, unless there's a negative in there somewhere.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

you think "womyn"'s bad...
[info]circumstance
2004-11-18 06:02 am UTC (link)
I believe it was on the LJ feminist comm that I read of someone spelling "woman" as "wombmoon". In all earnestness.

I have never in my life wanted a "stop being on my side..." sign more than I did at that moment.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: you think "womyn"'s bad...
redwarrior
2004-11-18 08:14 pm UTC (link)
I've heard that too.

What kind of insane female wants to be reduced to her genitals?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: you think "womyn"'s bad...
[info]circumstance
2004-11-18 09:44 pm UTC (link)
I guess it's better than having those cursed three letters, M-A-N, in there...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: you think "womyn"'s bad...
[info]kerikeri
2004-11-19 04:23 pm UTC (link)
Ouch. I've never seen that one and I've been on [info]feminist for about a year now, so I'm not sure if it was there or not, but the community certainly has its share of kre8tiv speelirs. I don't know if it's the English major in me or what, but every time I see "womyn/wymyn/wimmin/womon/whatever" I have the inexplicable urge to beat someone over the head with a dictionary.

That one is way, way worse, though. When fluffy-paganism attacks. Brr.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


redwarrior
2004-11-18 08:18 pm UTC (link)
O-kaaay...

How come I never see "practical" listed in there somewhere? LOL

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kookaburra
2004-11-16 11:59 pm UTC (link)
mintogrubb? I do believe he's been stirring up shit on the libertarianism comm for a while now.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]tekanji
2004-11-17 12:16 am UTC (link)
I'm not surprised. He's been the author of a lot of wanky posts in the feminist threads I've read.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-11-17 01:06 am UTC (link)
The fact that these idiots don't realise that violence against women and children are symptoms of a fucked-up Patriachy makes my inner feminist very, very sad. *headmeetswall*

(wank)November 25th is Internation Day Against Violence Against Women and Children. Buy a white ribbon from Unifem and associated organisations and help stop crimes like this.(/wank)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]blackjackrocket
2004-11-17 08:48 am UTC (link)
So...what is violence against people as a whole a symptom of?

And how about if the woman isn't targeted because of her gender? Like, say, she looks rich, so someone robs her? I've always wondered why when something happens to a man, it's just violence, but if the same thing happens to a woman, it's "OMG violence against wymmyn!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-11-17 02:53 pm UTC (link)
And how about if the woman isn't targeted because of her gender?

I don't disagree with you that this doesn't happen. It does. But unfortunately, the numbers and statistics for violence commited against women do tend to show a definite bias against women because of their gender, rather than class, race, or any other deciding factors that are more prominent in violence commited against men.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]circumstance
2004-11-18 06:10 am UTC (link)
Agreed most wholeheartedly.

It also irks me that whenever violence occurs it has to be a "symptom" of something at all. Sometimes a man kills a woman not because she's a woman, or because she's black, or because she's ugly, or because she's poor, but because he's a crazy fucking homicidal psychopath. What Evil Societal System Of Oppression is that a symptom of?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mael
2004-11-17 11:15 am UTC (link)
What if it's violence against women and children perpetrated by other women and children?

I might be one of those idiots, true, but that kind of reasoning makes my inner feminist wince.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-11-17 02:54 pm UTC (link)
What if it's violence against women and children perpetrated by other women and children?

What are you refering to here? My comments regarding white ribbons or the other part of my comment?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]mael
2004-11-17 03:27 pm UTC (link)
The fact that these idiots don't realise that violence against women and children are symptoms of a fucked-up Patriachy makes my inner feminist very, very sad. *headmeetswall*

That part of your comment.

What I mean is, are women who are violent towards other women a product of Patriarchy too? I realise this is getting specific, but what about children who kill their parents or their classmates? Still product of the Patriarchy?

Men who kill men?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-11-17 10:46 pm UTC (link)
What I mean is, are women who are violent towards other women a product of Patriarchy too? I realise this is getting specific, but what about children who kill their parents or their classmates? Still product of the Patriarchy? Men who kill men?

Er, that's a loaded question. Listen, I take the view that "The Patriachy" is a metaphor for the way certain aspects of society that are viewed as more masculine than feminine dominate. I'm not saying that it's some global conspiracy by men or some such thing like some feminists do. Before I would go saying yes or no, I'd be asking why. If men kill men in war, then yes. If men kill men from lower or higher classes because of their economic status strongly relating to their masculinity, then yes. However, it's hard to prove these sorts of things, because they're so ingrained in our society. Also, it doesn't always happen for these kinds of reasons.

As for women/children -> women/children violence, again, it depends. FGM is a symptom of a very fucked-up dominance of masculine aspects in a society, even though it is continued to be perpetrated by women who don't know anything better. But I know not all cases of such kinds of violence are like that. Some are crimes of passion, or symptoms of violence commited against them.

Okay, so now I realise I was being wanky and generalising. Thank you for pointing it out to me. *mops up spooge*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

I have heard worse things.
redwarrior
2004-11-18 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I remember hearing someone say once (at my old college) that if a white person killed an African-American, it was murder, but if the reverse happened, the murderer should be lauded for rallying against the oppressive, racist system. >___<;;

(Reply to this)


 
   
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