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Jen Littlebottom ([info]dwarfjen) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2004-12-12 15:01:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Candy-Coated

Mmmm feminist wank!
Boirozzlyn posts a link to an entry in her journal to the feminist community, about male circumcision. Wank ensues. (note, entry on her journal contains an image of a nude male. You have be warned. Or informed. Or something)

Female circumsision is much worse than male circumsision wank.

You didn't warn me about the nekkid photo wank.

I have more jew-cred than you wank.

And then, finally, follow-up wank, wherein boirozzlyn decides that because the interest 'human rights' isn't listed in the info for the community, then... something. There's a small spat about whether male circumcision is a feminist issue or not, an amusing bit where boirozzlyn replies to the comment:

I think what Kynn meant was that it's difficult to sit down and think of every single interest that any feminist might have so that no one is offended. Not that there wasn't any room.

With:

Human Rights is an offensive concept?

Eventually the OP gets banned, presumably for having no sense of humour and overreacting to everything and, in addition, posting links to non-work-safe things without warning, although she comes back briefly under two other journals: fatbobthecat and inkybloater.


Then the moderators froze everything, thus spoiling all my fun.



(Post a new comment)


[info]coffee_mug
2004-12-12 06:14 pm UTC (link)
It's actually kind of amusing, as I was just talking about the circumcision thing on an internet forum.

To me it's a far cry to not be able to wank without lube than to not feel anything during sex, ever (in my belief in female circumcision they cut out more than the clitoris, but correct me if I'm wrong), but as I'm not male, I'm not going to argue that male circumcision is okay or whatever.

It's still mutilation of genitalia, of course.



Why can't be all be friends and agree that genitalia is ugly, male or female, circumcised or not.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]the_clansmen
2004-12-12 07:58 pm UTC (link)
There's several different forms of female circumcision, I believe.

+Cutting off the clitoral hood. If I recall correctly, this renders the clitoris a lot less sensitive
+Lopping off the whole thing alltogehter
+There's also a practice that was referred to in that thread wherein women will have the inside of their vaginas scraped raw and then the entrance sewed shut so it will grow together and her husband will know she's a virgin when they get married. (Yuck, yuck, and yuck. This is definitely the worst of the three, IMO.) I'm actually not sure why this practice is classified as circumcision, but there you go.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rinoared
2004-12-12 08:39 pm UTC (link)
The extreme form combines cutting the labia minora and sewing the labia majora shut so that there's a hole the size of an acorn to let urine and menstrual blood out. This is mutilation beyond any doubt, and the only practice that can be compared to male circumcision is the cutting of clitoral hood.

The oddity there is that in theory, none of these practices are able to completely stop a woman from orgasming. The clitoris, for example, is larger than the average penis, only most of it is hidden inside. Plus there are women able to orgasm from nipple play only and so forth.

/gratuitious information dump

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-12-13 05:11 am UTC (link)
...How did you two type up all that without shuddering? *is ashamed of being such pain wussy*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rinoared
2004-12-13 08:52 am UTC (link)
I forcibly suppressed all the mental imagery. That, and I've been reading about this stuff for years so I have a bit of practice on that.

But the first time I read about it, I almost threw up. Euuugh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-12-13 01:12 pm UTC (link)
I can imagine. X_x

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]littlekitsch
2004-12-13 04:55 pm UTC (link)
Ooh, I know, you should have seen the arm-flaily thing I did while reading it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]smo
2004-12-12 08:40 pm UTC (link)
Actually, I think that last one is referred to as infibulation. For those against it, of course, it's referred to as FGM (Female Genital Mutilation).

And yeah, there's a huge difference between snipping off a flap of skin and virtually rendering someone's genitals useless for their original purpose.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]circumstance
2004-12-12 07:20 pm UTC (link)
Wow, uh, opening her argument by stating that all who disagree with her are brain damaged sure is a good way to win folks over. I should try that one sometime!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ignatius
2004-12-13 02:09 am UTC (link)
It impressed me.

I Firmly Believe That Most Human Beings Are, In Fact, Brain Damaged. If not most of them, an uncomfortably large number of them at least seem to be. Hell, I'd even go so far as to allege that a good number of the people I keep as friends are, in fact, brain damaged.

Yes. Everyone else around you is brain damaged. You are the normal one.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-12-13 05:18 am UTC (link)
"Everyone who disagrees with me is brain damaged". One of the many surefire ways to LOSE in a debate.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]llama_treats
2004-12-12 07:39 pm UTC (link)
It's official. "Westworld" would have been a far better movie if Yul was nekkid.

Yup.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]singe
2004-12-12 08:56 pm UTC (link)
No argument here.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]coffee_mug
2004-12-12 09:55 pm UTC (link)
omg. TIM!

Much much icon love.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]the_clansmen
2004-12-12 07:55 pm UTC (link)
The OP is so self-righteous I can feel myself being smothered. Ow. Ow.

(Reply to this)


[info]the_clansmen
2004-12-12 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Hm, and now that I've read most of it, I have to poke fun at a couple of the arguments:

If it wasn't meant to be there, it would fall off.

Sort of like the appendix, right? :P

Why not? You said in your other post that there is no health reasons not to. It's kind of like getting a hair cut or tattoo. Why get your ears pierced?

Hair grows back.

Tattoos *can* be removed.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't they do plastic surgery now to reconstruct the foreskin? Hell, if they can construct a whole new penis for FTM transsexuals, I would think so.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]smo
2004-12-12 08:43 pm UTC (link)
And a new clitoris for MTFs. So yeah, if a guy *really* wants his foreskin back, there are ways for him to do so.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]onetrickpony
2004-12-12 09:11 pm UTC (link)
Though, y'know, it's kind of a different story in the cultures where girls get their clitorises removed, right?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]smo
2004-12-12 09:38 pm UTC (link)
Well, yes, of course. I'm just saying.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]octavia
2004-12-12 10:00 pm UTC (link)
A friend of mine was an intern at a plastic surgery clinic and she told me about a foreskin reconstruction they did once (by loosening and then pulling the skin up). I remember she described the end result as 'looking a bit like a penis with a scarf' (because of different skin type). But yeah, it can be done.

That 'clitoral orgasm could be psychosomatic' theory's one I'd never heard before... Mere mental stimulation?! Ha!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]oulangi
2004-12-12 10:18 pm UTC (link)
That 'clitoral orgasm could be psychosomatic' theory's one I'd never heard before...
Sure you have - this is just another recycled version of that old song: "women’s sexuality is teh dangerous!!!111eleventy111!!!"

Now let’s get our hysterectomies so we can stop being such shit flinging cunts and live peacefully in Stepford, hooray!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-12-13 05:23 am UTC (link)
Right! And while we're at it let's trade in our jeans and t-shirts for loose shapeless dresses and aprons!

...Yeah, right. XD

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]oulangi
2004-12-13 05:35 am UTC (link)
I did! Unfortunatly I couldn't find any shoes to match my new outfit so I'm barefoot at the moment...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chaimonkey
2004-12-13 06:41 am UTC (link)
Reminds me of this dated "encyclopeadia of the human sexuality" I've got which insists that female masturbation is the cause for impotent couples. 'cause it's, like, all her fault, you know.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bubba_ray
2004-12-13 03:13 pm UTC (link)
Do they present a reason for this? I mean impotence as a reason for female masturbation I'd buy as reasonable but the other way round?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]chaimonkey
2004-12-13 06:01 pm UTC (link)
Hehe... One of the Dr.'s names is "Willy"...
Ahem, anyhow:

All this naturall only applies to the kind of infantile masturbation which is exercised by rubbing the clitoris. IN consequence of frequent excitation over a long period, the terminal nerves of this membrane of the vagina are inhibited in development. The clitoris therefore remains the center of sexual sensation in the women concenere, and when they engage in normal sexual intercourse, they prove to be impotent, owing to the insensibility of the mucous membrane of the vagina, since, as we have seen, the clitoris only plays a secondary role in sexual intercourse.

[snip]

[...] such girls choose masturbation of the clitoris as the only method of satisfaction, as vaginal masturbation would destroy the hymen. The result is tragedy - for the clitoric sexuality becomes fixed, the vagina remains insensible, and if marriage is nevertheless attempted, the woman is impotent from the outset. And the ideas of such women concerning the awful nature of feminine sexual satisfaction appear to stand confirmed, since they themselves derive no pleasure from it. If they had engaged in vaginal masturbation, sacrificing the physical symbol of virginity, they would have suffered little or no harm, exactly like men who masturbate in the ordinary masculine way. And later a satisfactory sexual life would have been possible at any time as soon as a partner had been available.


How to "treat" it:

What happens is that the sexual sensibility of the masturbating woman becomes fixed on the clitoris [...] and when normal intercourse is eventually attempted the vagina is entirely insensitive to excitation; but in such cases a cure is possible, usually through variations of position during sexual intercourse, designed to discover the most sensitive erogenous zone, if possible away from the clitoris. In addition, it may be necessary for the man at first to employ a particular method of intercourse, varying the speed, force and rhythm of the friction in a manner similar to the earlier movements of the girl during masturbation. This new method of intercourse must be practice for some time, and when orgasm is regularly attained it may be gradually varied, until orgasm is attained by the woman by the normal method of intercourse.
Naturally, such "treatment of masturbation impotence is only possible if the woman has a very skillful and experienced partner, who in addition has the gift of understanding.


Oh, and they also have an entire section on "natural birth control," or "days on which woman is immune."

This book is entitled The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Sex by Drs. Willy, Vander, and Fisher "as well as Other Authorities." It was published by Cadillac Publishing Co., Inc., New York in 1950. Pre-Kinsey Era, I believe - which would explain a lot.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]chaimonkey
2004-12-13 06:04 pm UTC (link)
concenere = concerned

Oh, and "such girls" are apparently ones who don't want to "deflower" themselves with vaginal masturbation. 'cause that's, like, the only reason we'd ever stimulate the clitoris, fo sho.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bubba_ray
2004-12-13 06:26 pm UTC (link)
Of course because that way you dirty harlots can still pretend to be pure... it is amazing how far they go with the old masturbation witll make you blind/cripple/hairy palms standby.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bubba_ray
2004-12-13 06:23 pm UTC (link)
Wow... there are just too many great targets to take cheap shots at.

At least now I, and all guys, can feel better when we roll over after tree minutes and fall asleep since it is clearly the girls fault that she masturbated in an infantile way that she cannot enjoy normal sex like that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mistressrenet
2004-12-12 10:13 pm UTC (link)
More importantly, icon love!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]nolifeking
2004-12-13 02:28 am UTC (link)
...someone has been able a fully functioning penis from skratch?

I mean, you thinking of the "enlarged clitoris turned into a micr-penis" or the "penis looking tube thing lacking erectile tissue that you can urinate through"? Because all penis-construction ways I know of are still so primitive there are FTM people opting not to undergo them because they feel they'd still not get a real penis for their trouble.

And like pointed out, you can't reconstruct an actual foreskin. It's not common skin, it's a double-layered type of tissue that as far as I know don't exist anywhere else in the body.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2004-12-13 04:44 am UTC (link)
...someone has been able a fully functioning penis from skratch?

I have heard of cases where they were able to make a fully functioning penis out of someone's finger.

One case I believe was a man who lost his penis to cancer so they tried a new surgery which involved turning one of his fingers into a working wang.

This is what you get when you're addicted to 'Ripley's Believe it or Not'.


Icz

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[info]sarajayechan
2004-12-13 05:24 am UTC (link)
I have heard of cases where they were able to make a fully functioning penis out of someone's finger.

O_o;; Really? Holy crap!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


redwarrior
2004-12-15 12:04 am UTC (link)
Word.

Phalloplasties do look like a quite literal "tube steak", which is why I don't plan on getting one. I'd rather have my clitoris turned into a 3-incher than having an 8-incher that looks freaky, that I can't feel anything through, and has the possibility of falling off.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]fandom_bitch
2004-12-12 09:16 pm UTC (link)
That was some wank, lemmee tell you.

Personally, if I have a boy, he's staying intact. If he wants to change it when he's old enough to decide what he wants to do with is own body, then he can. Not my choice, his.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eljuno
2004-12-12 10:14 pm UTC (link)
And also there's the advantage that, if he chooses to do it as an adult, in most cases they'll be dealing with cutting something a BIT larger than about 2 centimetres (I think this is the usual length of the penis at birth, but I am SO not a doctor) hence meaning that they've got a bigger target to hit, and a slip of the knife (OW GOD FORBID OW) will do a BIT less damage.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]moonjaguar
2004-12-13 12:20 am UTC (link)
I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", school myself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]annabelle_lee
2004-12-13 02:40 am UTC (link)
Amen. I'd do the same thing if I had a girl who wanted to change her gentalia too. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, but rather if it's forced or not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sorchar
2004-12-13 04:32 am UTC (link)
We didn't have my son snipped. I'm very anti-circumcision, personally.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]blue_linnet
2004-12-12 11:35 pm UTC (link)
Damn, that OP was the textbook case of 'deliberately misunderstanding'. She has a bone to pick, but doesn't want to come right out and say it, so she'll make subtly condescending remarks and then pretend she 'didn't mean it that way'. Bleh.

I did like this response to her oh-so-affronted 'Human rights is a trivial issue?'


The interests lists of a LIVEJOURNAL COMMUNITY is.

If you care so damn much, make your own "humanrights" community and have all 150 interests be "human rights."


Hee.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rachelmap
2004-12-14 02:13 am UTC (link)
Which makes her... an aggressive passive aggressive?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Mmm, tasty.
[info]nyctophilia
2004-12-13 01:02 am UTC (link)
... wow. Is it just me, or is boirozzlyn a dumb shit?

I love people who fling textbook definitions they don't fully understand the complexities of, then think it makes their take on the information right because they gotted teh werdz frum a BUK!

She also seems very anti-American. I happen to be an American, and and educated one. And I say, with all of my cultured learnedness... suck my ballz, Roz.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Mmm, tasty.
[info]nyctophilia
2004-12-13 01:03 am UTC (link)
See? "and and educated one." I can even spell.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-12-13 01:18 am UTC (link)
Don't you DARE tell me that male circumcision isn't about infringing upon one's sexuality.

They should have put this guy on Who Dares Wins.

Well, my LiveJournal exists to give my friends-list and my readers more wang each week than they'd normally get.

If s/he wasn't such a drama queen, this line may actually seem like a good reason to friend her/him.

Arguements from ethics are not going to convince me, because God said otherwise

I pity this person's children.

(Reply to this)


[info]sluggirl
2004-12-13 04:53 am UTC (link)
I got about halfway through her rant before I had to scream. To paraphrase a friend of mine, her actual point is "it disturbs me that we alter babies' genitals", which is valid, but not a religious objection, THEREFORE she isn't allowed to discuss it in religious terms.

Also, how's about using an unbiased source (ie not "circumstition.com")?

The human rights thing is just stupid trollishness, and she had to know it.

(Reply to this)


[info]faultypremise
2004-12-13 05:20 am UTC (link)
Sorry. I froze everything to get the bint to stop coming back under other accounts.

On a side note, she had three other accounts besides boirozzlyn.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]faultypremise
2004-12-13 05:23 am UTC (link)
[info]boirozzlyn was banned from [info]feminist for going against the rules listed on the info page.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist/1503054.html?thread=34221390#t34221390

Following that, she promptly returned on another account [info]inkybloater. I banned that, too, and she came back on a third account, [info]rubberbandlasar.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist/1508623.html?thread=34272527#t34272527

So, I then banned that one. And she came back on a fourth account [info]bobthefatcat to harass other community members again.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/feminist/1508623.html?thread=34275087#t34275087

Why in the world do I feel like singing 'the cat came back the very next day...'

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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