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	parkagirl 2004-12-13 10:32 pm UTC (link)
	Fadedtapestry is almost as terrible at trolling as the Doonsebury feminazi troll from f_w. Honestly, if these people are going to shitstir, couldn't they try a little harder? Or at least not suck so badly? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	kysen_ramses 2004-12-14 05:22 pm UTC (link)
	Um, this is totally unrelated, but I just wanted to say that I adore your icon. I saw that part of 'This Week in God' and couldn't stop laughing for about ten minutes. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	parkagirl 2004-12-14 06:11 pm UTC (link)
	Heh, it's all thanks to the fabulous tds_icons community over on LJ. There are some truly great ones. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	annabelle_lee 2004-12-13 10:47 pm UTC (link)
	I think I love Moronicity now. Even ghostlight managed to show up and wank. Whoo-hoo! (Reply to this)

	dodyskin 2004-12-13 11:11 pm UTC (link)
	http://www.journalfen.net/community/otf_wank/171111.html (Reply to this)(Thread)

	mydocuments 2004-12-13 11:15 pm UTC (link)
	Oh dear. ::Mortally shamed:: I shall edit to just mention Moronicity wank. ::slinks off, because I didn't read far enough back:: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dodyskin 2004-12-13 11:30 pm UTC (link)
	Oh dude, don't worry about it on my account. I meant to say you might want to include the link but apparently I just er, included the link. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mydocuments 2004-12-14 12:25 am UTC (link)
	I just kind of feel like an unobservant dork. Which... really... isn't too far from the truth, but... yeah. (Reply to this)(Parent)

PSA

funkyhelix
2004-12-13 11:45 pm UTC (link)

a Livejournal community with a mission not unlike ours at OTF/Fandom/I_wank. Poking the stupid people with sticks.

Wrong. F_W sees the wank, and points and laughs. We do not poke. We are Jane Goodall to the apes. Jane does not poke with sticks or otherwise fuck with the apes.

Also? Fandom Wank generally has to do with fandom matters. OTF_wank is for other than fandom wanks.

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	Re: PSA (Anonymous) 2004-12-14 12:11 am UTC (link)
	Also? Fandom Wank generally has to do with fandom matters. OTF_wank is for other than fandom wanks.</i> I think the OP knows that. S/he posted a non-fandom wank to the correct community, after all. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: PSA

mydocuments
2004-12-14 12:13 am UTC (link)

Also? Fandom Wank generally has to do with fandom matters. OTF_wank is for other than fandom wanks.

Indeed. That's why I included OTF_wank and I_wank in what you quoted above*. That's also why I posted this here. But you're right, we don't poke with sticks, I apologize profusely for the extremely poor woding. Moronicity and all of the _wank sites don't poke, we snark.

*Apologies to political_wank, gara_wank, fw_offline, and everyone else who I didn't mention because my sentence would have went on for ages.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: PSA vassilissa 2004-12-14 01:38 am UTC (link)
	We are Jane Goodall to the apes. Now, if that doesn't cry out for an icon... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: PSA smo 2004-12-14 01:42 am UTC (link)
	A shout out to Gary Larson would be cool. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: PSA chaimonkey 2004-12-14 01:53 am UTC (link)
	Since I'm too lazy to actually make the icon: http://www.lessonsforhope.org/scrapbook1.asp?sec=5&pgid=205 (Reply to this)(Parent)

blue_linnet
2004-12-14 02:20 am UTC (link)

Alright, I'm by no means a radical feminist...in fact many self-proclaimed radical feminists make me want to hide in my room. But no matter how many times this is explained to me, I do not understand why so many people are determined to put the blame on rape victims, and go out of their way that they're not 'all that innocent'. Even putting aside the whole offensive aspect, it makes no logical sense. Getting drunk or wearing revealing clothing are the things most cited for reasons why the woman should be blamed, but neither of these things seem particularly inviting of rape to me.

It just seems to me like there are a hell of a lot of people, men and women, who are really insistent that 'many' or 'most' rape victims are at least partly to blame. And I don't quite see why.

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(Anonymous)
2004-12-14 02:35 am UTC (link)

I think rape makes most men incredibly uncomfortable, and it's easier to think the victim in some way incited it. And I think a lot of women sort of feel it's a charm against it happening to them- if they aren't a "slut" or "inviting it" then they'll be safe. It won't happen to them.

People hate thinking about really terrible things happening to innocent people. A friend of my Mum's had two kids die in a freak accident and there were, unbelievably, people who assumed she must have been "careless." Because the idea of random horror is scarier.

Plus rape brings up such a nasty, maggot filled Pandora's box of gender issues. Sexuality and power and all that trcky stuff.

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the_clansmen
2004-12-14 03:58 am UTC (link)

Yeah, no means no whether you're drunk, wearing revealing clothing, speaking English as a second language, or a two-headed cow.

Of course, I'm usually careful where I get drunk because I don't want to put myself in a state where I _would_ get raped, but last I checked, lack of common sense was not a punishable crime (I'd be just as guilty if not more so [sticks fork into an electric socket])

[/ramble] Anyway, rape is in no way the victim's fault. That's what makes it _rape_, and that's what makes the victim a victim.

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	the_clansmen 2004-12-14 04:03 am UTC (link)
	...Though then again, most rapes are by someone the victim knows... so I suppose even if you're careful... Yay, I'm talking to myself! (Reply to this)(Parent)

blue_linnet
2004-12-14 05:28 am UTC (link)

Yeah..I can definitely see advising people to be safe (in fact, I've seen it go too far the other way, where people act like advising common sense is blaming the victim when no such thing is intended).

The point about most victims knowing their attacker is a good one. I mean, yes, I could be overly paranoid, and never go anywhere with a guy alone, but that's pretty impractical, for one thing. (And often the same guys who make these statements will bemoan being 'treated like a criminal' if a strange woman acts wary of them.)

I...think my issue with the whole topic stems from the fact that people who make these statements seem to think that rapists are somehow spurred forward by revealing clothing or 'slutty behaviour', even though the statistics don't really bear this out. I never hear a solid answer on *why* 'they deserved it' or 'it was their fault'. Pretty much everyone at one point drinks too much, or flirts, or whatever behaviour these people think is instigating. Bleh.

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teratologist
2004-12-14 04:04 am UTC (link)

Besides the excellent answers above, there seems to be a hang-up in this society about the idea that to be a 'victim' you have to be totally innocent, never having done anything wrong or made any mistakes - otherwise you deserve whatever you get. All or nothing. Not only in rape cases, but in other crimes, in economic and social analysis, etc.

I have some ideas about why this is but it would require a doctoral dissertation to really understand.

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	(Anonymous) 2004-12-14 04:08 am UTC (link)
	Oooh, that's eally interesting. You're right of course. It's the way people think that welfare should go to widows, but not single mothers who weren't ever married at all... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	blue_linnet 2004-12-14 05:30 am UTC (link)
	That would also explain why, in a court case, those who want the accused to get off, will try to 'dirty the victim', even though that's irrelevant to whatever happened. Or maybe I've been watching too much Law&Order again... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2004-12-14 05:37 am UTC (link)

Unfortunately, the defence often know all too well what they're doing. The nastiest thing I've heard of, tactically speaking, was a lawyer saying, "isn't it true you were using cocaine on the night in question?" She denied it- and there had never been any suggestion of drug use at all, prior to that. The lawyer pulled it out of her ass. But it fixed it in the jury's mind that she was somehow suspected of drug use, ergo was a bad girl, ergo probably consented to "rough sex" and that was how she was injured. The guy was acquitted.

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