innsmouth_eyes
2005-03-16 07:54 am UTC (link)

I'd like to forget, but it's hard to do that when you make additional posts about it.

It's kind of low of them to go after her spelling, she asked an innocent question, but she's an easy target. And the idea of logging their conversations just wouldn't work, since logs are easily erasable and they could always just use a different computer if they wanted to have private conversations. Most schools have computer labs now, not to mention libraries and friends' houses...

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	krazycat 2005-03-16 08:09 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, ok. I had a look at the woman's journal. And I snip: I can not believe it I dropped my cell phone in the toilet, Yes it was before I peed, but I am not sure if it is going to work, I have it drying out now, and will check it in the AM... I hope so.. cause I have only had the phone 2 weeks. And that's really all I have to say about any of this. grin (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-03-16 08:17 pm UTC (link)
	Oh lawdy, my idiot roommate did that. It takes a special kind of stupid. What was she doing, talking on the phone while peering into the toilet? Maybe I should post about her in the offline wank community. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

warchio
2005-03-16 09:27 pm UTC (link)

I wish to answer no questions about this but it is possible to drop your phone in the toilet by using the following proceedure.

a) Get a small phone that fits in the back pocket of your jeans.
b) Put phone in jeans
c) Drink a lot of coffee and wait till you are desperate
d) Rush to toilet and wait for disheartening splashing sound.
e) Say 'Oh Shit'

I can also share the method for accidentally burying your phone in loft insulation if anyone is interested?

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	cpip 2005-03-16 10:47 pm UTC (link)
	I have the method for accidentally dropping your cell phone in a bucket of water... a) Get a mid-sized phone b) Put in outside pocket of your windbreaker, leaving pocket unzipped c) Carry bucket of cleaning water in hand on same side as pocket with phone d) Brush side with door while opening cage to clean it e) Hear splash f) Curse. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	the_clansmen 2005-03-18 06:30 am UTC (link)
	Method for dropping CD player off bleachers: a) climb up to upper layer b) put CD player in pocket and turn on in order to ignore assembly c) move d) hear CD hit floor a story below you That thing got dropped so many times. What was truly amazing was that it never stopped working. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-03-17 01:45 am UTC (link)
	and thus why I don't like small cellphones. that, and when they're under the size of an old nokia 5100, they just feel to damn wierd to use. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ladybirdsleeps 2005-03-16 09:43 am UTC (link)
	Her poor kids. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	annabelle_lee 2005-03-17 08:03 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, really. If mine were ever like that, I'd be more inclined to never go home. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	nevadafighter 2005-03-16 10:39 am UTC (link)
	Wow. I think she wins the award for "Most Annoying Repeated Reptition of a Badly-Spelled Comment" ever. Way to not even read what people are saying to you . . . (Reply to this)(Thread)

	nevadafighter 2005-03-16 10:40 am UTC (link)
	REPETITION. Zounds, should follow my own advice, eh? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	pokecheck 2005-03-16 10:48 am UTC (link)
	I'm starting to think that jurisimprudence law about fucking up spelling, grammar or punctuation in a post pointing out someone else's bad S/G/P goes far beyond jurisimprudence. I'm starting to believe that it is A Universal Truth. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ashenmote 2005-03-16 01:55 pm UTC (link)
	I've heard it is an ancient curse. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	pokecheck 2005-03-17 01:55 am UTC (link)
	Painted in grammatically incorrect hieroglyphics in a temple in Egypt. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ashenmote 2005-03-17 02:11 am UTC (link)
	Eye, jackalheaded guy, coil, norse, eye, vulture. (Reply to this)(Parent)

papervolcano
2005-03-16 03:17 pm UTC (link)

I know that back when I was hanging out on usenet, it was considered a basic, fabric-of-the-universe truth on the order of 'where there are fen, there will be wank' that any spelling or grammar flame must contain a spelling or grammar error.

I suspect it goes even further back. I can easily imagine those Victorian men of letters writing snipy little comments to each other, of Shakespeare telling everyone to STFU, he'd spell how he wanted to, because he is A Genius! You know the Romans would be all over grammar mistakes, and spelling flames probably go back to the earliest pictograms, because OMG, you drew that ox wrong, the horns aren't right!!!1!

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	pokecheck 2005-03-17 01:56 am UTC (link)
	OMG, you drew that ox wrong, the horns aren't right!!!1! Nuh-UH! My sheep totally doesn't have six legs! Or something! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	adora_spintriae 2005-03-16 10:56 am UTC (link)
	Its not that I dont trust them, but one they are teenagers, and two I dont trust alot of people in the world. hedesk (Reply to this)

	blue_linnet 2005-03-16 11:05 am UTC (link)
	What exactly does she plan to do if she finds out some old guy is talking to them? I mean, since they know they're being monitored, it's not like they're likely to enter into some clandestine online mad affair, I'd think. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	pokecheck 2005-03-16 11:19 am UTC (link)
	Who knows. Maybe being watched turns them on. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-03-16 12:45 pm UTC (link)
	Forgive my mousy innocence, but isn't it better to teach your kids how to deal with pervs and flashers online and in the real world (point and laugh) then try and shelter them? Especially if they're teenagers? ~ The mouse who consumes men's souls (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bubosquared 2005-03-16 01:20 pm UTC (link)
	Silly mousey. Your Earth Logic has no place on the internet! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-03-16 09:04 pm UTC (link)
	I'm meeeeeeelting.... ~ the mouse who consumes men's souls (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bubosquared 2005-03-17 11:50 am UTC (link)
	Oops. mops up the mousey-goo (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pokecheck 2005-03-17 01:57 am UTC (link)
	Was that addressed to me or to Vice Cop!Mom? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-03-17 12:49 pm UTC (link)
	Scary vice-cop mom. ~ the mouse who consumes men's souls (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dreamtoday 2005-03-16 11:29 am UTC (link)
	if i had teenaged daughters i wouldn't let them out of the house. ahem. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rachelmap 2005-03-16 01:11 pm UTC (link)
	Why go anywhere when you can get all your lovin' online? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dreamtoday 2005-03-16 04:10 pm UTC (link)
	pfft. how are you going online if there's no electricity? i'm not STUPID. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kijikun 2005-03-16 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	Convents. I hear they're making a come back. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dreamtoday 2005-03-16 04:08 pm UTC (link)
	chastity belts are better i'm told. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	smo 2005-03-16 03:26 pm UTC (link)
	I talk to them until I am blue in the face, about the fact that you dont know if someone is telling you the truth on the net. Right. And since they're so trusting, they believe every word you tell them, lady. Sure. You keep on telling yourself that. (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2005-03-16 09:55 pm UTC (link)
	If my mom told me she was monitering my online conversations, I would move out of the house. Taking my cellphone (or if she didn't trust me with one, taking HER cellphone) with me. (Reply to this)

greenling
2005-03-16 10:45 pm UTC (link)

1) Of course you trust them. You just think they're too stupid to converse with strangers without falling madly in love with a fifty-three-year-old who lives on the other side of the country and selling their souls for a poptart. I hope you never have to take your kids to a grocery store. They'd probably get molested by the bagboys.

2) You give a rat's ass what they're talking about to their friends from school until they actually DO start hiding things from you. If you genuinely weren't worried about whether they would come to you about bad grades, being influenced by scary people, actual emotional problems or social difficulties, you wouldn't be the type to micromanage them on the off chance you'd miss something in the first place.

3) Yes, the entire internet world lies about themselves, unlike in "real life". I think you're secretly a thirteen-year-old boy trying to figure out how to disable FBI encryption and take over the world with your pet dragon.

4) God forbid any of your daughters turn out to be lesbian or something else that REALLY isn't any of your damned business. I fear for them.

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pet
2005-03-17 05:00 pm UTC (link)

]1) Of course you trust them. You just think they're too stupid to converse with strangers without falling madly in love with a fifty-three-year-old who lives on the other side of the country and selling their souls for a poptart.

Shit, 3/4 of the adults I know are this stupid. Add in the inexperience of youth and you've got a potential train wreck on your hands.

At least, when I have kids, keeping an eye on them and their online interactions might keep them from making a mistake that could get them raped or killed. And yeah, I think most of the internet world DOES lie about themselves, and I think there are lots of predators out there. I'd be as willing for a child of mine (still under my care) to have an intense online relationship without my supervision as I would for them to have an intense real-world relationship without my supervision: in other words, not at all.

The OP's clearly no genius, but I think her heart's in the right place and her methods are hardly child torture.

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greenling
2005-03-18 03:53 am UTC (link)

I agree her heart's in the right place. I just don't think there's any reason to believe she's not one of those 3/4 of adults you mention. As I said, I don't think a developing relationship is going to end up being everything she watches out for, regardless of her original intentions.

On the one hand, yes, she could potentially save them from doing something stupid. Even the best of parent-child relationships can be soured, and some kids are just that good at hiding things. Life's horrid that way.

On the other hand, if my parents had listened in on my internet conversations, I'd be locked up in a little white room drooling and living as my mother's plaything for the rest of my life in between hallucinations and manic episodes, if not dead, from a pure heart and the best of all possible intentions.

I don't think it's child torture, no. I just don't trust anyone with absolute control of privacy over another person, parent or not. I'd rather go with the being really open thing and keeping the kid around other trustworthy adults if they thought they couldn't go to me about something. It's really not worth it for the possibility the parent will stumble across something harmless but "weird"- or something the kid was handling- and rip them open for it.

The temptation to spy on EVERYTHING a kid does is going to be too much for most parents. After all, you're not meaning any harm, right? And you know what's best...

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	(Anonymous) 2005-03-17 01:48 am UTC (link)
	Too late to wish sterility upon the idiot. I hope her daughters turn out to have the intellect that seems to have skipped thier mother. (Reply to this)

pfeffermuse
2005-03-17 05:31 am UTC (link)

I guess I'm going to come across as a first-class wanker with my response: I do understand to a degree what this woman is talking about.

I don't have children, don't want them, but I love the ones who are part of my extended family, and treat them as close as any parent could (except, I can return them at the end of the day).

My friend asked me to help her select a computer for her two daughters, who I consider my nieces. Since I didn't use my AOL account, but kept it active for business purposes, I was more than willing to help them set up their internet access using it. "B" is an Uzbekistan immigrant; her daughters, while born there, are far more Americanized.

Anyway, I spent long hours explaining the 'net, chat rooms, not volunteering personal information...the usual road map for any early teenage n00b. With all the explanations of 'net safety, with all the promises of being careful, I allowed them to have the second to highest AOL privileges for their account.

Knowing that English was not their mom's first language or that she had any understanding of the internet, I'd occasionally review their e-mail. Yes, call it "overstepping my bounds" or any other derogatory adjective you wish -- I snooped. Most of the e-mails were kids talking to kids, homework questions...the usual stuff. That was until I read correspondence from a person who had all the earmarks of an internet sexual predator. The e-mails were carefully worded to sound as though they were written by a teen, but any familiarity with writing style gave that one away; the e-mails also stated how much this guy had come to love "Z", how he longed to meet her, that since he supposedly lived in Brooklyn and she in Queens a meeting could be arranged for him to show her exactly how he felt about her.

To put it simply, I went ballistic. As no laws were broken, even though "Z" was a minor, there was nothing that AOL, the NYPD or the FBI could do to go after this guy. The laws may have changed since then, but at the time, nothing could be done.

The next day, I spent three hours on the phone explaining to "Z" why this guy was a stalker, pointed out all the signs of it, and thanked every deity known that she and her sister had followed my one piece of online warning: never use your real-life name or address.

While I'd already alerted their mom, I had warned her to do nothing until both girls spoke to her and admitted their error. And to their credit, they did tell her, and we all had a nice long talk about the 'net. Although, that didn't stop some other extended family aunts and uncles from going after this guy or reaming "Z" and her sister a new one.

Of course, I also dropped their internet access privileges down to the absolute lowest level possible.

I just wish schools offered some kind of course for the internet that would teach netiquette to the old, and common sense to the young.

Pepper

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	funwithrage 2005-03-20 12:38 am UTC (link)
	Point. I know I looked at a fair amount of porn online as a kid, and I am opposed to parents checking that out--your kids? Gonna look at porn. Deal--but there are some fucking scary people out there. Good to make sure kids aren't going to go and meet them. (Reply to this)(Parent)

the_clansmen
2005-03-18 06:26 am UTC (link)

That thread just got creepier and creepier. I hate posters who just C&P the same thing, too.

And I would have hated if my parents had nosed into my online life too...though I _was_ looking at stuff I shouldn't have been. (Ironically, they've actually got parental controls on my brother's account, and I'm pretty sure he isn't looking at porn. THough then again, he is 16...and a guy...)

I'm surprised that no one pointed out to her that if her kids were fooled by an online predator, _she_ might not necessarily pick up that there's anything fishy going on in the chatlogs, either. I mean, I'm honestly not sure I would.

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(Anonymous)
2005-03-18 05:51 pm UTC (link)

heh...she made the mistake of asking this question in a community where most of the posters are young people who aren't parents, and indeed a fair few are probably teenagers or close to it..and hey, I'm not a parent either so I'm not going to go all pious 'you don't know what you're talking about unless you've spat one out blah blah' so don't worry.

but...I have a feeling that if she had asked this in a parenting community or in a community with an older average age (as in more parents of teenagers by law of averages) she would have got a far more sympathetic response. Fact is, when people become parents all the idealistic stuff about privacy goes out the window (yes that's a generalisation, but I've observed it being more true than not). Fact is the hormone driven 'protect the cubs at all costs' mentality takes over and you just don't give a damn about the kid's privacy or anything. the parental Protect My Cubs program has taken over your brain. You have been assimilated.

I can see both sides of the argument. But I think those of you who are fiercly defending teenage privacy, if you ever have kids will probably feel differently. Not everyone will, but most will. Even if you think you won't you most probably will.

Asking a question like this in a community of her daughters' peers was dumb. Of course they aren't going to be on her side! Duh. It's a war between the mean old 'rents and the kids and never the twain shall meet...that is until the kids become parents themselves.

And what is with repeating the same paragraph over and over? WTF?

(I tried to post this on the comm itself under my lj name, but it wouldn't let me because posting is friends only! Damn!!!)

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