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	rann 2003-10-18 02:36 am UTC (link)
	headdesk ... Okay, time you get out the rusty metal pipe and the duct tape... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	iczer6 2003-10-18 02:42 am UTC (link)
	Duct tape's to good for these folks, I say break out the razor wire. Honestly I love how the miss the part in the article that says how he used 'force and fear' on another victim, and just assume because she's 16 she happily got in the car with him. That he didn't just grab her, or threaten her. [Well the article is pretty vague but Christ..] Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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rann, 2003-10-18 02:45 am UTC

	gairid 2003-10-18 02:42 am UTC (link)
	Good thing none of them do have kids with attitudes like that. Jeez. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	jfpbookworm 2003-10-18 05:08 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, you showed them. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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virago, 2003-10-19 04:10 am UTC

	teratologist 2003-10-18 03:47 am UTC (link)
	See, reading the description, I was all set for one of those sticky, greyish, 'is consensual sex with a legal minor always rape?' kind of discussions. What I actually read when I clicked on the link, on the other hand, was pure ick. For being committed to not passing on their genes, these guys sure smoke the Social Darwinism crack pipe on a regular basis. (Reply to this)

	fandom_bitch 2003-10-18 04:19 am UTC (link)
	I'm soooooooo glad these people have chosen NOT to breed. How utterly disgusting! (Reply to this)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-10-18 04:30 am UTC (link)

One thing that really turns me off to Childfree is the sheer amount of malice and cruelty some of the posters seem to posses.

I should've posted an earlier post about a young girl who was raped by her father, and then later killed herself. Her father was the one that did it and he threatened to cut off the girl's hair if she didn't comply.

Then posters commented on how stupid the GIRL was for not letting her father mutilate her.

Like it would've stopped the bastard.

Icz

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psychofangirl, 2003-10-18 05:13 am UTC

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fandom_bitch, 2003-10-18 06:02 am UTC

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lots42, 2003-10-18 03:00 pm UTC

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pyratejenni, 2003-10-18 04:03 pm UTC

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jfpbookworm, 2003-10-18 05:26 pm UTC

Ha! -

iczer6, 2003-10-18 05:36 pm UTC

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jfpbookworm, 2003-10-18 05:49 pm UTC

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pyratejenni, 2003-10-18 07:38 pm UTC

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lots42, 2003-10-18 10:59 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:10 pm UTC

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redpanda, 2003-10-18 07:45 pm UTC

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lots42, 2003-10-18 11:00 pm UTC

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schuldig, 2003-10-19 01:05 am UTC

rann
2003-10-18 08:47 am UTC (link)

I've noticed that a fair number/several/some of them (whichever doesn't get me in trouble to say) don't say "I'm not going to be a parent because I just don't want to be", a lot of them are like "OMG! How could anything DARE to PRESUME to get more attention/love/money/time than ME?!!?!?! I refuse to allow anything to take the focus off what's really important, ME!"
Honey, maybe people aren't calling you selfish because they're part of the great breeder conspiracy and they have a primal drive to make EVERYONE reproduce... maybe they're just making an observation on the fact that you seem extremely self-centered. n.n;;

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kerikeri, 2003-10-18 11:41 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:46 pm UTC

soleta
2003-10-18 06:19 am UTC (link)

I absofuckinglutely hate that argument. I detest it with a passion. People who make bad or misguided choices, or cannot bring themselves to make a choice, DO NOT DESERVE the shit other people do to them. (no, this isn't personal to me at all) It is not their fault what other people choose to do.

You can bet if something like that had happened to them, or someone they cared about, they would be singing a completely different tune.

(Reply to this)

<--Dear Faery Queen: This one's for you.

feenix
2003-10-18 06:57 am UTC (link)

So, basically, it's her fault for being raped--instead of just letting it get jammed into her hoo-ha, she should have just pulled out the kung-fu and kicked his fucking ass. And further, her rape detector (which all women born after 1982 are equipped with) should have been on.

REAL realistic. Yeah. And I'm sure that you'd have kicked the shit out of him, and he'd have been too shocked afterwards to try and even murder your ass.

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	rann 2003-10-18 08:48 am UTC (link)
	Now THAT'S an elaborate icon. o.o (Reply to this)(Parent)

	jfpbookworm 2003-10-18 07:55 am UTC (link)
	That's not childfree. That's two, maybe three people, if you don't count yourself and the person who said the post was off-topic (which I agree with). If they were piling on in agreement, I'd be squicked. But they're not. The reason there's so few posts is that two minutes later the same poster posted this. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	esorlehcar 2003-10-18 04:59 pm UTC (link)
	As there are several comments in the post you link to suggesting that an 11-year-old child is to blame for her father raping her, this may not the best way to prove your case. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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jfpbookworm, 2003-10-18 05:06 pm UTC

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iris, 2003-10-18 08:48 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:12 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:16 pm UTC

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sewingmyfish, 2003-10-18 11:27 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:32 pm UTC

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mirabellawotr, 2003-10-18 05:24 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:19 pm UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-18 11:22 pm UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-18 11:54 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 12:20 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-19 12:40 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-19 03:46 am UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 04:26 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-19 04:43 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-19 05:04 am UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 05:07 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-19 05:14 am UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 05:20 am UTC

Enough -

iczer6, 2003-10-19 05:20 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-19 05:29 am UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-19 05:31 am UTC

	lots42 2003-10-18 02:58 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus criminy, I read the thread. NOBODY is blaming the girl for what happened. And can you please stop assuming all childfree people think the same on everything? (Reply to this)(Thread)

sagralisse
2003-10-18 03:41 pm UTC (link)

I think the problem comes in all the assumptions made in the thread. They assume that the girl willingly got into a car with someone that she barely knew. There's also an assumption that she disobeyed rules set by her parents, and that because he was on some registry, she should have known that he was a child molester.

However nothing in the article says she went with him willingly. He could have tricked her. Nothing in the article says that she barely knew him. She may have come in contact with him every day for months. And nothing in the article says that her parents would have disapproved. They might have known him. He could be one of their co-workers. Maybe he cuts their grass.

It's possible that all their assumptions were correct, but they don't know. Yet they still feel free to call her stupid.

WE know that he was registered as a child molestor because it says so in the article. Most likely, the teenager didn't have that information. I don't look up the names of all my aquaintances to find out if they're registered child molestors either.

Playing the "she should have known better" game can make you feel like you're all superior and shit, but it's false. Bad things can happen to anybody, and anybody can get raped.

Sorry, not ranting at you personally. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2003-10-18 04:40 pm UTC (link)

[Jesus criminy, I read the thread. NOBODY is blaming the girl for what happened.]

Really so comments like:
"I lose a good amount of sympathy when I hear the "victim" got willingly into the car.

Can we saaaay STUPID?"

Aren't blaming the victim?

I'm sorry but This Is Not Earth Logic.

[And can you please stop assuming all childfree people think the same on everything?]

To be fair there ARE nice, intelligent CF folks.

Icz

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jfpbookworm, 2003-10-18 05:24 pm UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-18 05:33 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 04:59 am UTC

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jfpbookworm, 2003-10-19 05:46 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-10-20 02:21 pm UTC

translation, please? -

mrbimble, 2003-10-22 02:37 am UTC

Re: translation, please? - (Anonymous), 2003-10-22 03:04 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 12:14 am UTC

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pyratejenni, 2003-10-19 12:23 am UTC

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rann, 2003-10-19 12:26 am UTC

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teratologist, 2003-10-19 01:35 am UTC

esorlehcar
2003-10-18 05:10 pm UTC (link)

Jesus criminy, I read the thread. NOBODY is blaming the girl for what happened.

Well, except here: "and she shouldn't have gotten in his damn car! really!"

And here: "I lose a good amount of sympathy when I hear the "victim" got willingly into the car. Can we saaaay STUPID?"

And here: "i hate sounding cold, and no one deserves to be raped for making a mistake, but, there are somethings people should know better than to do."

And here: "she didn't deserve it, no, but she did puit herself in a more risky situation and she needs to take responsibilty for that."

And here: "poeple need to think before they act and have more damn responsibilty for their actions. he shouldn't have raped her, but she shouldn't have gotten in his dfamn car."

That's five comments saying, in a nutshell, that the girl didn't deserve it, but it's her fault it happened. You may not call that blaming the victim, but I certainly do.

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	rann 2003-10-18 11:21 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus criminy, I read the thread. NOBODY is blaming the girl for what happened. Yeah, and our wank-case from a few days ago said she wasn't a racist. Just because someone says they're not something/not doing something, don't mean they ain't. (Reply to this)(Parent)

It gets even better!

iczer6
2003-10-18 06:50 pm UTC (link)

Well I responed to The Faery Queen here:http://www.livejournal.com/community/childfree/1856469.html?replyto=21268437

And this was her reply:http://www.livejournal.com/community/childfree/1856469.html?replyto=21268693

Highlights include: "and don't tell me i didn't read the artciel. i did. and probably better than you as i can look at things from anopen minded perceptive whereas you just look at this as, poor woman, what a horrible thing to happen, rather than poor woman what a stupid mistake to have made!

you are a dumbass. deleteing any futher posts from you"

And: "i am not discussing this with you, or anyone else. i am not ion my high horse. i have an opinion and i have the right to express it. so sorry it doesn't agree with you and your blinkered opinion that everyone but the victim is to blame. the victim is not to blame, but she is partly responsible in this situation. it takes two to create a situation, if she hadn't got in the car, it woudn't have happened."

I'm wondering if this person even knows what the word 'victim' means? Do they LISTEN to what they're saying or is this a really great troll?

I'd be more hurt if this person could actually spell and puctuate correctly.

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	Re: It gets even better! pyratejenni 2003-10-18 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	Sigh. I almost feel sorry for the people trying to defend the childfree community on this one. Almost. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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lots42, 2003-10-18 11:06 pm UTC

Re: It gets even better! -

iczer6, 2003-10-18 11:17 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-18 11:28 pm UTC

Re: It gets even better!

l_s_q
2003-10-18 08:09 pm UTC (link)

"the victim is not to blame, but she is partly responsible in this situation."

Oxymoronic much?

I'm always suspicious of "but..." statements, like "I'm not sexist, but..." or, in this case "I'm not blaming her, but...". It always suggests to me that the person is about to confirm that they are something which is negative, usually some form of bigotry or predjudice, and desperately trying to hide it.

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Re: It gets even better! -

iczer6, 2003-10-18 08:19 pm UTC

Re: It gets even better! -

l_s_q, 2003-10-18 08:35 pm UTC

	Re: It gets even better! gairid 2003-10-18 10:50 pm UTC (link)
	It's always so wonderful to be called a dumbass by someone who cannot even bother to take the time to write or spell correctly. (Reply to this)(Parent)

darqstar
2003-10-19 04:35 am UTC (link)

As a member of childfree, I deliberately refrained from commenting to the post in question because it reeked of potential wank.

No one 'deserves' to be raped. No one 'asks' to be raped. By the very definition, if someone asks to be raped, then it wasn't rape.

And yes, the world should be perfect and young girls should be allowed to get into cars with total strangers and never ever have to worry about being raped. But the world isn't perfect and until it is, it is up to parents and teacher to tell a child never get into the car with someone you don't know well.

It's too late now for that girl. It happened and god, I hope she's going to be okay. But in the future, if someone reads the article and that reminds them never to get into cars with strangers or people you don't know very well, then perhaps some other little girl won't have to go through what this poor child is.

And, in defense of Fairyqueen, she also wrote he was already convicted once before, yet he was out and about to do it again! he shouldn't have been out and about!

Which, I entirely agree with.

I think Fairyqueen sometimes writes before she thinks. It's real easy to sit back and say, "She should have bitten off his cock!" when you're safe at home behind your computer screen. *Sighs* If that poor girl were my child, my friends child, or anyone I knew, I'd be agonizing over it, wondering if I should have taught her how to better defend herself. Not because I felt she was at all responsible for the attack on her, she wasn't, but because I would rather have seen it never happen.

Childfree is a huge group. The larger the group, the more potential for wankier and idiocy to be able to run free.

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iczer6
2003-10-19 04:55 am UTC (link)

[It's too late now for that girl. It happened and god, I hope she's going to be okay. But in the future, if someone reads the article and that reminds them never to get into cars with strangers or people you don't know very well, then perhaps some other little girl won't have to go through what this poor child is.]

That's was one of the points I was trying to make.

It's super easy to tell someone what they should've done AFTER the fact. However the thing is we DON'T know the situation or the relationship between the young girl and the rapist.

Someone said simply that he could've tricked her, she could've thought he was trustworthy, etc.

The thing is we can't control how other people act, we can try be as careful as possible but that's still no garuntee that something bad won't happen to us. The only way to be totally secure is to lock ourselves up in a bulletproof cellar.

I think this all boils down to the fact that many people don't want to accept that shit can and will happen to ANYONE, no matter what the age, race, education. That bad things can happen to even the most wary and intelligent people.

Icz

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darqstar, 2003-10-19 05:31 am UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-19 05:51 am UTC

	faultypremise 2003-10-19 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	Sometimes, I'm embarassed to call myself childfree. (Reply to this)