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Faulty Premise ([info]faultypremise) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2003-10-24 22:03:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Oooh does this get interesting.
Lots of drama lately over in the Feminist community on lj.

Including this little gem: If you're white, you're automatically racist!

And apparently, not only are you automatically racist if you're white, it's impossible to be racist against white people if you're in a Western country.

Ah, such a hot topic. Right up with Abortion, apparently.

(Post a new comment)


[info]rann
2003-10-25 04:14 am UTC (link)
Actually, there are entire college courses teaching people about how they're automatically racist if they're white. u.u;;;
As one person put it: "Black Studies is about pride in being black. Asian Studies is about pride in being Asian. White Studies is about shame in being white."

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]zannechaos
2003-10-25 06:46 am UTC (link)
How positively lovely. ::retch!::

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]feenix
2003-10-25 05:59 am UTC (link)
Wow.

And I thought the race debate I managed to get myself entangled in at another board (because I didn't get pissed off when someone referred to me as the N-word because I knew he was joking) was wanky.

(Reply to this)


[info]terminal_frost
2003-10-25 06:23 am UTC (link)
Am I the only one who can't make sense of what the OP was saying here?

It just seems like the point she was making got lost somewhere in the diatribe. (Maybe due to grammar or spelling or something...)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rebeccasama
2003-10-25 06:34 am UTC (link)
Sounds like a lot of high-horse shit to me. :P

I like that point "You're white, here's your racist card." I'd really love to beg to differ but I wouldn't touch that wank with a ten foot pole. And people of color can't be racist against whites? Love to know what area of the country they're from 'cause I've certainly seen instances here.

Bleah, I say. I guess I'll just shuffle my opressing, racist, white ass off to that KKK meeting now. :P

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]darthfi, 2003-10-25 12:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teratologist, 2003-10-25 02:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmikhailovic, 2003-10-25 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kimera, 2003-10-26 12:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2003-10-25 03:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rann, 2003-10-26 05:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]daijinryuu, 2003-10-26 07:38 am UTC

[info]zannechaos
2003-10-25 06:52 am UTC (link)
First, WTF is up with this little thing lokust does in comments:
.l.
.
.
.

I mean, the hell? It looks more like s/he's flipping everybody off. Well, judging by the crap s/he's spewing in the community, I'm not so sure that's not what it is.

Second:

This excerpt, taken from this thread:
I don't support one race benefiting at the expense of another. To insist that I do because of my skin color? That is the very definition of racism.
[...snip...]
So, if someone says, "I hate all white people because they're white!" they aren't racist? If it's impossible to be racist against white people, how is that attitude explained?
[...snip...]
When you make the above claims about me based on my skin color, that is a racist action, regardless of what my skin color is.

I just wanted to say that [info]chandrevyn wins some serious "Cool" points in my book.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]faultypremise
2003-10-25 04:30 pm UTC (link)
Chandrevyn's my sis, which is how I got drawn into the wank. And yeah, she's majorly articulate. I love that woman to peices.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2003-10-25 07:46 am UTC (link)
Can we have a corollary to Godwin's Law dealing with a member of a dominant societal group who whines about people bashing that dominant social group?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sorchar
2003-10-25 11:02 am UTC (link)
Not when they're being accused of being racist simply by virtue of having been born into said societal group, we can't.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rann, 2003-10-25 11:28 pm UTC
Re: - [info]sorchar, 2003-10-26 07:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2003-10-28 12:45 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-10-27 03:44 pm UTC (link)
No, because it's not wanky to point out injustice against ANY group of people, dominant or otherwise.

It's very short-sighted to discriminate against the majority like that. Unless you haven't noticed, they're people too!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dae
2003-10-25 03:36 pm UTC (link)
*snort*

I would love to know how black or asian people can't be racist against whites... we have a strong asian community where I live and because I'm white I've been called a 'skanky white bitch' as I was walking past a large group of asian guys. I would love to have them explain how that's not racist... I shall do to them what I did to those boys... 'yeah... whatever...'

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]oxydosic
2003-10-25 04:06 pm UTC (link)
No kidding. There was a very small black population at the college i went to but they (well the girls, most of the men were really nice) were constantly pushing the administration to grant them special privileges. If they balked they'd call the NAACP and get all sorts of threats made of lawsuits, calls to the media, etc. The school basically catered to whatever they wanted, because they didn't want to be called racist. And they were rude as hell to a lot of the white students...and if you ever dated a black man, oh boy, you were public enemy number one. I had nasty things taped to my door on a daily basis while i was dating one, nasty things said to me, etc.

My senior year, someone started making threatening phone calls to students. I got one myself. Complaints kept coming in from students but nothing was done until a black student got a call. Then all of a sudden the FBI shows up to do line traces. They didn't give a shit until it was a minority being threatened, because then it's a 'hate crime'. Screw the rest of us.

Uh, i was ranting there, sorry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]redpanda, 2003-10-26 05:24 am UTC

[info]oxydosic
2003-10-25 03:56 pm UTC (link)
If it is one of the western nations - and you are "visibly caucasion" - you are living off of the blood and bones of others and silently involving yourself in a comminity that still benifits from this history of racism.

If you remain unaware of your "privilege" that is a form of racism.

It does not matter who your great granparents were - or what they did...
It does not matter how much money you have (that is class not race)...
It does not matter how many "friends" you keep...

Skin color has EVERYTHING to do with this - if you have not come to see what a great card you have to play with your complexion then there is still much to learn.

So..what should we do then? Smear ourselves in black polish? Get our eyes surgically altered to look Asian?

Her logic boggles me. I am perfectly aware that because i'm white i may have certain advantages. But you know what? White people have a lot of disadvantages too. We get passed up for jobs for often less experienced minorities in the name of 'affirmative action'. Minorities get special scholarships and consideration for admission to universities. They get a LOT of things that white people can't.

White people can't have scholarships, etc. meant especially for caucasians, or the screams of 'racist' are heard. Yet if one were to complain about a blacks only scholarship, we'd be called 'racist' again.

I'm all for equal rights...but one race having more privileges than the other? No.

Uh, think i went off on a tangent there.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]pyratejenni
2003-10-25 04:01 pm UTC (link)
Remember what I said about people whining because they're losing privileges?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2003-10-25 04:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-10-25 06:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2003-10-25 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-10-27 03:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2003-10-25 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rann, 2003-10-25 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darthfi, 2003-10-26 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2003-10-26 03:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]daijinryuu, 2003-10-26 04:33 am UTC
Re: - [info]rann, 2003-10-26 05:27 am UTC
Two wrongs don't make a right - [info]redpanda, 2003-10-26 05:29 am UTC
Re: Two wrongs don't make a right - [info]zannechaos, 2003-10-26 02:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rann, 2003-10-27 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kimera, 2003-10-26 12:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-10-26 12:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kimera, 2003-10-26 12:23 pm UTC

[info]teratologist
2003-10-26 02:51 am UTC (link)
In the balance that isn't really white disadvantage though. It's not like there aren't still thousands of great school spots, scholarships, and jobs that it's cake for a white middle or upper class person to get, compared to the opportunities for a middle class minority or lower class person of any race, simply by virtue of the secret code of dress and speech that even the most intelligent lower class kids don't get a chance to learn, and which vary culturally. And let's face it, 'more qualified' and 'less qualified' are fairly nebulous issues, especially in schools that are already basing admissions on a.) legacy b.) sports or c.) the need to 'round out' the classes by getting enough students in each department students to justify the budget.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kimera, 2003-10-26 12:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teratologist, 2003-10-26 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2003-10-26 12:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kimera, 2003-10-26 12:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teratologist, 2003-10-26 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]teratologist, 2003-10-26 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-10-27 03:54 pm UTC

[info]fandom_bitch
2003-10-26 09:58 pm UTC (link)
You know, I have been sitting here for a while now trying to come up with something to say on this topic. I'm not even sure why I feel the need to. I have been a victim of racism myself - I'm part native (my paternal grandfather was aboriginal) and from a city that also had a real bug up their arse about the Irish (my paternal grandmother was Irish/Scottish - my mother's side is of Scottish/Welsh descent), which my parents were lumped into by virture of where they were from initially (even though they weren't technically Irish). I grew up surrounded by natives and Irish and watched as they struggled to get around the obstacles put before them in the very WASP community we had the pleasure (note sarcasm) of being part of (especially during the 70's).

As a result of all this, and having to put up with derogatory statements and jokes through much of my life, I have decided that ALL racism is wrong. It doesn't matter one way or another. I think, in many cases, affirmitive action was detrimental because it assumed minorities weren't as smart or as capable as the dominant WASPs were, which was insulting to many people in the visible minority groups (one friend of mine who is black was horribly offended by this - as many other people I have met were as well).

Racism, sexism, ageism, classism - it's all not good. I have always maintained that if you're a decent person, then I don't particularly care what your background is. And I will fight for equal opportunity for everyone. As far as I'm concerned, we're all human beings. No one group is better or superior than the other. I think it's good we as a whole are aware of history and aware of what people have done to each other, but all the finger pointing and accusations aren't going to make things better. Action is more important and walking the talk is more important than what my great-great-great grandaddy did, (which ain't meaning much in my case since most of my distant relatives at that time WERE oppressed groups - but I think you all can get what I'm getting at), because I certainly didn't approve of it. A body doesn't really pick their relatives now, do they.

Yoiks, now I'm being wanky. :P

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]panthea
2003-10-28 12:53 pm UTC (link)
I think, in many cases, affirmitive action was detrimental because it assumed minorities weren't as smart or as capable as the dominant WASPs were

My understanding of affirmative action is that it didn't assume minorities were less capable, it assumed that white people would refuse to hire them based on their minority status. Thus, fault = whites, not minorities.

That said, I think affirmative action is inherently ineffective in the long run, not the least because it breeds resentment and a new generation of racism. And because quotas are demeaning.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Um, hate to rain on your parade, but...
(Anonymous)
2003-10-29 11:52 pm UTC (link)
http://members.aol.com/digasa/stats54.htm

In order to be racist, you have to be in a position of sociopolitical power.

U.S. minorities can and often are prejudiced.

But they cannot be racist.

As for affirmative action causing racism... did you know that racist incidents have INCREASED in the UC system since the repeal of AA a few years back?

What I think is that those middle and upper class whites who are against affirmative action have a sense of entitlement. What is being perceived as "racism" is really just people not going along with the accepted genuflection at the altar of whiteness and Westen culture.

Get a grip, please.

Or at least, get informed.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Um, hate to rain on your parade, but...
(Anonymous)
2003-11-04 11:33 am UTC (link)
There's a difference between institutional racism and individul racism.

[quote]What I think is that those middle and upper class whites who are against affirmative action have a sense of entitlement. What is being perceived as "racism" is really just people not going along with the accepted genuflection at the altar of whiteness and Westen culture[/quote]

What about the poor whites? They're probably just ignorant right?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]diamonde
2003-11-02 04:53 pm UTC (link)
I just have one thing to add.

My ancestors were imprisoned and sent halfway around the world to a foreign country. They were used as slave labour, mistreated, discriminated against and treated like property. Now it's all very awkward, nobody likes to talk about it and everyone would prefer to think that everyone was a bold colonial trailblazer, earning a living in a harsh land through bravery, community and hard work. And, incidentally, decimating the native peoples.

Oh, by the way, I'm about the whitest white that ever whited. My ancestors were convicts. They got transported to Australia because they were poor thieves or whores, or Gypsies, or Irish. As far back as we can trace my maternal grandmother's side of the family is a prostitute who got transported for stealing the john's clothes.

So, where's my poor white trash scholarship? Hell, the any-old-mongrel poor trash scholarship? Because I sure as fuck didn't get taught secret codes of dress and speech, and neither did my ancestors.

Ah, white. It's totally the new beige.

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