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	megmurry 2005-06-12 02:38 am UTC (link)
	Blue_lightning has the patience of a... um... a really patient thing. I could live without the digs about fanfic-writing, but the person who said that had a point. All Crysania needed was something about emerald orbs and a school for wizards and she'd be set for life in the Potter fandom. (Reply to this)

	smo 2005-06-12 02:42 am UTC (link)
	it's just a fact of life! You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and then you have... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2005-06-12 02:52 am UTC (link)
	...BALD OFFSPRING uh. cough (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2005-06-12 02:53 am UTC (link)
	o_O ... Is that a Gunlock thing? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2005-06-13 02:28 pm UTC (link)
	No, that's a 'it's late, i'm tired, and my sense of making sense is asleep on my cat' thing XD; (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2005-06-13 03:12 pm UTC (link)
	XD Okay, just checking. (Reply to this)(Parent)

issendai
2005-06-12 03:37 am UTC (link)

This has been edited to death, with the help of a variety of published authors

When will newbie writers learn that authors != editors? Anyone who thinks that the ability to turn out good raw manuscript equals the ability to turn out good final manuscript needs to read the books Anne Rice, Laurell K. Hamilton, or J.K. Rowling turned out after they fired their editors. Really now, people.

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	the_wanlorn 2005-06-12 03:40 am UTC (link)
	... Has anyone ever really fired their editor and not hired a new one? Cuz what kind of insane person would do that? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

issendai
2005-06-12 03:55 am UTC (link)

Technically, no, they keep their old editors and get a no-edit clause. The editor can't change a word of their precious writing except to fix glaring errors like misspellings, and the book goes out unedited. The author traditionally follows up with a public paean to the fabulous editor who's helped her to polish her words to their highest shine.

Rinse, lather, repeat. Most authors who do this have about three books' worth of peace before the fans rise and ~~overthrow them~~bitch about them in their guestbook.

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	the_wanlorn 2005-06-12 03:57 am UTC (link)
	Thats... I have no words for that. Seems incredibly dumb. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

issendai
2005-06-12 04:06 am UTC (link)

You obviously don't appreciate real artistry, then. REAL Art springs whole from the artist's mind, perfect and glorious. Nasty editors destroy Art's essential purity with their foul little commercial schemes.

Anne Rice said it better, actually. It was moving and persuasive and involved, uh, violin concertos, I think. I can't actually remember it because around that time three hundred people screamed "ANNE, YOU SUCK SYPHILITIC DONKEY DONG IN THE LOWEST REACHES OF HELL!" in unison on Amazon, but it's around to be Googled.

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marylake
2005-06-12 05:35 am UTC (link)

And no, I have no intention of allowing any editor ever to distort, cut, or otherwise mutilate sentences that I have edited and re-edited, and organized and polished myself. I fought a great battle to achieve a status where I did not have to put up with editors making demands on me, and I will never relinquish that status. For me, novel writing is a virtuoso performance. It is not a collaborative art.

*wipes away a tear* I love you, Anne.

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	issendai 2005-06-12 04:18 pm UTC (link)
	sniff It's so beautiful. I could have sworn there was a violin. Oh, well. Perhaps I was confused by the sound of someone playing a concerto on the world's tiniest violin for her. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	singe 2005-06-12 09:32 pm UTC (link)
	That was me! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	selene_avis 2005-06-13 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	May I profess vast amounts of love for your icon? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	singe 2005-06-13 06:00 pm UTC (link)
	Certainly, thanks! And you can take it away, too, if you like. No need to credit. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-06-12 08:21 pm UTC (link)
	Did Rowling really fire her editor? I know lots of people think Order of the Phoenix was badly in need of some ruthless editing, but I didn't think that it had gone without any altogether. - Lind (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-06-12 09:39 pm UTC (link)
	No, I don't think she did. To the best of my knowledge, it was said that the publishers were probably in such a hot rush to get OOtP on the market that the editing suffered. It could also be that JKR's editor(s) treated her work with kid gloves because she's JKR. But as far as I know, JKR still has editor(s)... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	greenling 2005-06-12 11:08 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, neither she nor anyone affiliated with her ever said anything about firing the editor. Either it was a quick job, a deliberately bad job, or they'd just hired someone's nephew. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	issendai 2005-06-13 12:49 am UTC (link)
	Is that so? Then my mistake. OTOH, even if she doesn't have an official no-edit clause, books 4 and 5 show definite signs of kid-glove treatment, which results in more or less the same thing. (For the record, I like HP. I'd just like it more if the books were edited more rigorously.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2005-06-13 04:16 am UTC (link)

I don't know about GoF, but my surmise is that OOtP was rushed through the editing process because the publisher wanted it in the stores, stat.

Also, I've read books by other famous authors which smack of kid-glove treatment - I honestly wonder if some editors don't push too hard to proof and correct the works of authors who are famous and sell well. Whether it's because editors don't want to offend Mr. or Ms. Big or because they're lazy and would rather download porn on the office computer, I leave for others to surmise.

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issendai
2005-06-13 05:07 am UTC (link)

It's because they don't want to offend, I suspect. (If they'd rather download porn, all their books would suffer, not just the big-name ones.) Also, the more popular an author is, the more clout s/he has with the editors, and experienced authors aren't any more eager than newbies to see their work tampered with. Add to that the ego that comes with success, and you've got yourself the recipe for a really good wank.

I'm minded of an editor who had to deal with one of Gary Gygax's last novels. He was never a good writer, but he was Gary Gygax, how dare you suggest he was less than worthy? The manuscript was unpublishable, but the editor couldn't hand it back to him for a complete rewrite. She had to line edit it and rewrite sections herself, while making excuses to Gygax about how these "minor" changes made his work so much better.

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	im_nucking_futs 2005-06-13 12:20 am UTC (link)
	J.K. Rowling fired her editor? I didn't know that. patiently waits for the quality to go down and for the spoolge to develop (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-06-13 12:37 am UTC (link)
	There's no evidence that she did. That's not to say that her editor(s) didn't do a half-assed job with OOtP. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-06-12 03:51 am UTC (link)
	Oh lordy, she's in the churchoferik LJ comm with me. I need a shower now. ~the mouse who consumes men's souls (Reply to this)

	nevadafighter 2005-06-12 03:51 am UTC (link)
	Good Lord that babe is almost THIRTY! I was thinking eighteen, tops. Maybe nineteen. Jesus Christ on a cracker . . . (Reply to this)(Thread)

	issendai 2005-06-12 03:57 am UTC (link)
	What is it this month with thirty-year-old teenagers? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	livii 2005-06-12 03:59 am UTC (link)
	Lovely little wank. Best part actually had to be down at the end, when someone "complained" that they couldn't get in on the original wank because it was the Jewish Sabbath. In reply: maybe a Jew fictionslamming board, where "we can crunch matzah while simultaneously critiquing and stuffing gefilte fish". Hah! Oh, and 30? My god. That girl is an embarrassment. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	greenling 2005-06-12 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	They complained on the internet that they couldn't get online because of the "working" restrictions? Whuzzah? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sitt_isis 2005-06-12 04:33 am UTC (link)
	People need to wake up & realize that just because something has been published doesn't mean it's good. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	mrbimble 2005-06-13 04:08 pm UTC (link)
	one look at a good half of current romance fiction and one would realize you're completely right. (and I love good romance fiction. but so much is CRAP) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	aerobot 2005-06-12 07:38 am UTC (link)
	I don't GET these people. It's not like people snarking over at pottersues or anything - they ASKED for their work to be visciously critiqued. AND THEN THEY FUCKING WHINE! (Reply to this)

	dreamtoday 2005-06-12 09:46 am UTC (link)
	if only the work of so many of the accepted members didn't suck so badly. WHOSE SIDE SHOULD I BE ON? oh, too many brain cells are attempting to work in my head. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	issendai 2005-06-12 04:16 pm UTC (link)
	nods And the snippet of her own wasn't all that bad--overwritten, sure, but not unreadable. She'd make a good addition to a writing group if she were anything remotely like teachable. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	adora_spintriae 2005-06-12 11:56 am UTC (link)
	...for fanfiction. Ohhh no. Don't pass her off onto us. We've got plenty to go 'round, kthnx. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	winterfox 2005-06-13 06:51 am UTC (link)
	Amen, sister. We don't need more thin-skinned prima donnas. :/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	the_wanlorn 2005-06-12 09:18 pm UTC (link)
	It's sad that she was so unreceptive to blue_lightning's critique. I would pay to have someone like that editing/critiquing for me. Er, except, not really. Cuz I'm a po' college student. But the sentiment is there! (Reply to this)

	windex_junkie 2005-06-14 10:54 am UTC (link)
	Dunno about the wank, but... I would not touch a writing group that has its info page written itty itty eeny unreadable fucking type with a pole of any length. Counterproductive much, kids? (Reply to this)