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Eilan ([info]eilan) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2005-08-14 21:18:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Is HIV/AIDS really real?
Smallish so far, but I can see it explode in the future.

_scientists_ is a community to discuss all things that have something to do with natural sciences.

In a post, , the possibility of a cure or AIDS/HIV is brought up.

ankh_f_n_khonsu, known for his stance of 'AIDS is not real' steps in shortly after the post is made.

We'll see where this goes.

Of course, only a few hours earlier a post was made complaining about how economics isn't listed in the user info. Somehow, this community is a bit fucked up this weekend.

(Post a new comment)


[info]somnambulicious
2005-08-14 08:44 pm UTC (link)
For bringing to my attention a wank that includes the phrase "um, lysogeny much?" I heart you. Seriously, science wank is the best thing ever.

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[info]eilan
2005-08-14 08:47 pm UTC (link)
You're welcome. I think it's a worthy alternative to 'bitch, much?'. Way more sophisticated ;)

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[info]gorogoro
2005-08-14 09:03 pm UTC (link)
I'm not seeing a lot of wank here... a bit of disagreement, but not wank. But then, for the record, I'm skeptical of both sides of the whole AIDS thing, and I've read most of the journal articles and editorials. Which was it again.. _Nature_, maybe, where there was that whole spat with Duesberg? Whew, now that was some cattiness.

Just sayin', the people saying that AIDS doesn't exist have some very good points which I've never seen refuted particularly well.

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[info]eilan
2005-08-14 09:06 pm UTC (link)
No, not much wank yet *sighs* But the end of the thread looks promising so far :) More [info]clairvoyantwank so far, I guess, but I am too lazy to delete and copy it to there now.

So let's hope it explodes ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ianthefira
2005-08-14 09:19 pm UTC (link)
Sad thing is, most people supporting that side seem to be unable to argue their point well...

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[info]gorogoro
2005-08-14 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Always hard to argue science. Keeping up with the literature is killer, and half the people who want to argue it have no science background at all, so it's like talking to a brick wall.

I had some guy try to tell me that pure salt was white because they bleached it and thus ocean salt was better for you. *facepalm*

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[info]ianthefira
2005-08-15 12:14 am UTC (link)
...what. That's... that's really...

Gaaaah.

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[info]sorchar
2005-08-15 03:58 am UTC (link)
I wish they'd tell those "good points" to my best friend who died of AIDS-related complications at age 27.

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[info]phosfate
2005-08-15 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. I know a couple of dead people who'd probably have a thing or two to contribute to the discussion.

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[info]adora_spintriae
2005-08-15 08:41 am UTC (link)
I dunno. I think suggesting HIV/AIDS is mythical, and then that if it possibly exists it differentiates between the genders it attacks is pretty wanky. [info]ankh_f_n_khonsu needs to be dumped in the middle of sub-Saharan Africa.

And this link just extends this whole mess into the realms of batshit.

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[info]gorogoro
2005-08-15 02:09 pm UTC (link)
I'm not going to debate it on here and get my keyboard all sticky, but there's some interesting and a bit weird articles out there if you don't mind reading medical journals. Including ones about African AIDS where the doctor did HIV tests (since most people who have AIDS in Africa have never been tested for HIV) and was like "Yo, these people have AIDS but not HIV, WTF?"

Like I said, I'm not going to say it doesn't exist, but some of the evidence is weird. Very weird.

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[info]msmanna
2005-08-15 05:00 pm UTC (link)
Including ones about African AIDS where the doctor did HIV tests (since most people who have AIDS in Africa have never been tested for HIV) and was like "Yo, these people have AIDS but not HIV, WTF?"

Cite, please. I'd be interested in seeing well-done research. I've never read anything from the AIDS doesn't exist side which wasn't somewhere between unfounded/misunderstood and crazier than a sackful of weasels on acid.

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[info]gorogoro
2005-08-16 02:36 am UTC (link)
Uhh, all I remember is it was in some medical journal when I was searching though Sciencedirect, with my university subscription pass (which I am sadly lacking now). Sorry.

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[info]msmanna
2005-08-16 11:02 am UTC (link)
Oh, that's a shame. I've seen things like that mentioned before, and I've never been able to find a source for it. All I've ever seen are the 'HIV does not cause AIDS' people misquoting papers about studies of clinical case definitions in Africa.

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[info]gorogoro
2005-08-16 02:18 pm UTC (link)
It might help for searching that it was quite a recent article, when I read it about a year ago.. probably published in 2004 or 2003.

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[info]adora_spintriae
2005-08-15 09:14 pm UTC (link)
I've read material on that, and the ones I am aware of suggest this is because Africa has had the disease in its environment the longest and in the most numbers, therefore different evolutionary mutations have occured from the strains circulating and evolving in the West. Indeed, it was just a theory, but from what I can gather this guy is trying to suggest neither HIV nor AIDS exists, which just makes me boggle.

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[info]danaoshee
2005-08-16 08:47 am UTC (link)
Last time I looked through the "does aids exist" things, one of the main arguments was with the ELISA testing looking for antibodies rather than the actual virus. Since the new rapid tests for aids work by doing a direct PCR test for the virus, as I understand it, how have the skeptics responded to that?
Personally, I get way too excited about PCR testing, and I realize it may not be as miraculous a thing as I am currently convinced (also, I enjoy running PCRs, I'm a freak) but I'm curious about how it's changed the arguments.

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[info]gorogoro
2005-08-16 02:22 pm UTC (link)
Oooh. Rapid PCR tests. I would expect that would show less false-positives than the old antibody tests too. Can't find good references right now with google scholar, but that's not surprising -- I'll have to wait until I have all those lovely university paid subscriptions again.

Dammit, and I told myself I wasn't going to get into reading about this stuff again. *headdesk*

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[info]greypearl
2005-08-14 10:21 pm UTC (link)
But then, it's able to distinguish between males and females, and among those with sexual proclivities too, so it must be an amazingly intelligent virus!

Wait a minute... does this mean anything that shows a different reaction in women than men is make believe? So all other STIs are made up, too? And I guess autoimmune disorders are a fantasy as well.

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[info]michmatch
2005-08-15 09:18 am UTC (link)
Actually that theory is pretty common. I'm told quite often that my RA is 1% pain, and 99% blown out of proportion by drug companies selling me snake oil. A woman with lupus in my pain clinic divorced her husband because he insisted she was really a hypochondriac.

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[info]ladybirdsleeps
2005-08-15 10:34 am UTC (link)
Pff. You must not have read the literature that shows that womenfolk with chronic illnesses are just hysterical and craving attention.

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[info]ecchaniz0r
2005-08-15 11:32 pm UTC (link)
fgfdkjghsfdkljghsghgfdjk

I want to apply a LART to anyone who subscribes to that crap. Honestly, the idea that female physiology in and of itself is 'broken' still lives on in pockets of the med community and I have absolutely no qualms about being a prissy bitch to nimrods who think thus.

"Are you sure you're not exaggerating" my sinus infection and mild bronchitis, asshat. Shall I loogie in yo' face?

Ahem. Sorry. Ranty today.

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[info]michmatch
2005-08-16 05:54 am UTC (link)
Wait! It gets better!

Not just exaggerating, we are mistaken about our having an autoimmune connective tissue disorder by virtue of being female and of course unable to suck it up and accept the minor annoyance of pain. Because clearly such things do not exist except in our delicate and damaged little minds.

In lieu of ranty I went for sarcastic passive aggression. Can you tell I ran into an asshat today?

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[info]panthea
2005-08-18 01:46 pm UTC (link)
Exactly! Women can't take pain. That's why we have the children.

oh, wait.

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[info]toasterkitten
2005-08-15 10:34 pm UTC (link)
where is the cheese grater at, so that i may rub my forehead against it?

what a dick! yeah, all those people are dying because they want to be tricky! good times!

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[info]toasterkitten
2005-08-15 10:35 pm UTC (link)
also, the way they sign "Namaste." at the end of all their comments annoys me for some reason.

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[info]jat_sapphire
2005-08-16 01:36 am UTC (link)
Because all the variations of "You suck! Have a nice day!" are annoying?

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[info]toasterkitten
2005-08-16 02:11 am UTC (link)
i was more bothered by the "i just wanted to let you know that i did indeed write the above paragraph, just like my user name implies, in the sense that my user name, while not my ACTUAL name, represents my REAL name, or at least the on-line persona thereof" thing.

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[info]renata_hpjc
2005-08-16 02:24 am UTC (link)
Nameste isn't a name, as far as I'm aware; it's a greeting/farewell word, and a very polite one at that, which just adds to to the lovely passive-aggressiveness of the posts.

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[info]toasterkitten
2005-08-16 02:28 am UTC (link)
oh! i see! i thought it was one of those crazy, made-up nick names. Sanskrit!

where is that god-damned "the more you know" animation when you need it?

(Reply to this)


redwarrior
2005-08-21 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Did you see that dude's userinfo? Scaaary shit.

Not only does he deny HIV/AIDS, but also the Holocaust and 9/11.

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