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	the_wanlorn 2005-08-26 08:05 pm UTC (link)
	Oh my jesus. Would they flip out if a cat-sized dog was an indoor pet? You're damn tootin'! My indoor-outdoor cats would like to politely tell them to piss off. That community started out interesting and now I just want to strangle all of the members. Most of those posts aren't stupid pet owners. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2005-08-27 07:26 pm UTC (link)

I agree. A load of people are just really wanky. They can't tell the difference between someone who doesn't know better and someone who's been informed but still doesn't give a toss. They think they have the ONE TRUE WAY of owning a pet. (They also seem to be totally unaware of the UK; it's pretty safe for indoor/outdoor cats here because the cat is unlikely to meet anything bigger than a fox). They are getting bloody annoying.

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papervolcano
2005-08-28 08:10 am UTC (link)

When I was living in Uxbridge, I saw one of my neighbour's cats face down a fox that had strayed into her territory (which, as far as I could work out, consisted of the entire planet, but that's cats for you). Fox didn't hang around long.

Mind you, I would be a bit wary about badgers, but I've yet to hear of urban badgers, and I'm pretty sure there's no badger sets within roaming distance of my two. But that's about the limit for potentially dangerous wildlife over here. Mangy foxes and shy badgers.

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ironymaiden
2005-08-26 08:29 pm UTC (link)

Everyone is always saying how cats should be only indoors, and saying that anyone who lets their cat outside is A HORRIBLE PERSON. This makes me feel bad, because I've had two cats in the past who were indoor/outdoor. One lived to be 13 before complications from FIV caused us to put him to sleep.

The other only lived to five, but he wasn't killed by being outside. He ran away because he hated the new dog.

I live in Southern California, and it's just not practical to have an indoor-only cat. We leave the doors open a lot, both for us and for the dog. The cats would have been miserable if we hadn't let them outside.

Plus, how else would they have killed the rats and mice in our yard?

What works for you doesn't always work for everyone, militant indoor cat people.

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annabelle_lee
2005-08-26 08:38 pm UTC (link)

Don't feel bad. My cats are ten and five and both are indoor-outdoor. Haven't died yet. Either I'm doing something right or the cats are smarter than average since they've both got enough common sense to stay in our neighborhood and come home at night.

...you know, now that I think of it, it's sort of amazing that the militant indoor cat people don't realize that cats can: a)be trained and b)are predators. Or at least, that it seems that way. Heh.

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ironymaiden
2005-08-26 08:47 pm UTC (link)

Exactly. Kitty (the one who got FIV) was tough, and could take care of himself, but he almost always came home at night, sat at the back door yowling to be let in for snugglies. However, when he did stay out all night... he was a tough cat. Fought off other cats, coyotes. Hell, we once found him in the backyard fighting a RATTLESNAKE. Big old snake, 3-4 feet long. Kitty had the snake backed into a corner and was swiping at it. My sister, in both the bravest and stupidest moment in her life, ran outside in shorts, BAREFOOT, grabbed Kitty and ran back inside, narrowly missing being struck by the snake.

Tobey, the other cat, was a giant weenie, and we made sure he was never left outside overnight. We'd stand outside at 1am, calling for him. I usually ended up having to corner him under a chair and drag him inside. Of course, Tobey never left the backyard, the big chicken.

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	megmurry 2005-08-26 11:21 pm UTC (link)
	Icon love. (Reply to this)(Parent)

jrs1980
2005-08-26 09:40 pm UTC (link)

My family has had five cats. One lived till 18 and died of, y'know, old age. In our yard. Mine was sixteen when I abducted her and moved her into my apartment last February. The most "outdoors" she gets now is the laundry room. I call it her retirement home. She's adjusted pretty well, probably because I restricted her when the temps outside were negative 20-30.

I think she misses killing things, though.

Enough about us, though.

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	misachan 2005-08-26 08:36 pm UTC (link)
	My boyfriend's cat was strictly an indoor cat for almost a year and a half, and all it did was make her stressed and unhappy. When we started letting her go outside, she became much, much easier to get along with. Some cats just need to go outside and hunt. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	threegoldfish 2005-08-26 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	I had a friend who had a cat that was the exact same way and was much happier spending most of her time outside. She'd climb the screen door on the front of the house when she wanted in. That cat, unfortunately, ended up getting hit by a car right in front of their house after about a year outside. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

kannaophelia
2005-08-27 04:57 am UTC (link)

My cats literally ripped the flywire off the windows and screen doors in a desperate attempt to get out. until I gave up and had catdoors installed. Australia isn't as bad for flies as it used to be before the last biological thingummy, but you still want flywire.

The neighbours have a mouse-ridden lumberpile, and you can't call a cat Greebo and then complain when it wants to hunt.

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	elanor_durall 2005-08-26 09:09 pm UTC (link)
	Holy crap. Those people would freak out if they knew about the lifestyle our four barn cats live. (Reply to this)

zing_och
2005-08-26 09:13 pm UTC (link)

Grr, lots of stupidity all around. But I found a winner: julseybean, who thinks that people who let their cat outside on their own should get plushies instead, and says

So, yes, why bother getting a pet if it's just going to sit outside (not AT your side) all of the time?

because of course having a cat is all about you.

I always had outdoor cats who'd become completely crazy when they couldn't go outside when they wanted (when the vet said so, for example.) Maybe they were smarter... I was quite happy to "let them make important life decisions". That's why I like cats - they make their own decisions!

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tviokh
2005-08-26 09:25 pm UTC (link)

So, yes, why bother getting a pet if it's just going to sit outside (not AT your side) all of the time?

I'd be irritated if my cats and dogs were at my side at all times. :D

Part of the reason we fenced off a chunk of the yard and put in a pet door was so we didn't have to deal with meowwhinebarkmeowyowlmeowIWANNAGOOUTSIDE!!! all the time. Now the little fuzzwads can go in and out as they please. The only time we 'force' them to be inside is at night and that's because we don't want the dogs developing barking habits and we don't trust other people not to break in/climb the fence and steal or torment them.

IMO, letting a cat outside is different than letting a cat outside to run loose and unsupervised. In a city/suburb situation, it's just flat out stupid to allow the latter as it's so easy for a cat to be hit by a car.
In the country...it's still not the best idea in most cases, but not quite so bad.

One of my uncles has about 40 barn cats. They leave food and water out for them by the house, they all get vet care (and are vaccinated), most are spayed/neutered, and he keeps them there to keep the mice, rabbits, small critters and rats out of the barns and his crops.

Those cats go batshit if anyone tries to bring them inside for more than five minutes at a crack.

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	megmurry 2005-08-26 09:48 pm UTC (link)
	I've got this mental image of julseybean as Elmyra from Tiny Toons now, suffocating her cat as she drags it around in a hug/headlock and never lets it leave her side. I don't expect my FAMILY to stay indoors all the time and keep me company. Why would I expect it of my cat? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lurker32 2005-08-27 03:35 am UTC (link)
	julseybean, who thinks that people who let their cat outside on their own should get plushies instead, and says So, yes, why bother getting a pet if it's just going to sit outside (not AT your side) all of the time? Why bother getting a pet if it's just going to sit at your side all the time? I'd think that's what plushies are for. Idiot. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	radiotrash 2005-08-26 09:51 pm UTC (link)
	We tried to make my kitty an indoor only cat for one day. Her yowling drove my family up the wall. If I was living by myself I'd be more than happy to put up with her but see, my mom, step-dad and younger brother can't handle it. She comes in at night and stays inside during winter. shrugs (Reply to this)

	marlo 2005-08-26 10:25 pm UTC (link)
	::lets the cat outside:: Take THAT! (Reply to this)

moonpigeon
2005-08-26 11:54 pm UTC (link)

My kitties are indoor only. They did get a taste of freedom, once, when someone left the screen door open. One hit his head on the screen door (twice, if I recall) in his hurry to get back inside. They're too stupid to survive out there, what with strays and the freeway in our backyard.

And I just like always knowing where my kitty is, so if I'm in need of comfort and I can go snuggle him.

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sarracenia
2005-08-27 03:21 am UTC (link)

My indoor cat tends to get out every so often. My favorite was either the time he snuck outside when it was raining, and I didn't notice him missing for three or four hours. Until I heard very loud and very pathetic meowing from halfway across the house and opened the door to find a very wet cat wrapping himself around my ankles. Or the time he got outside at eleven, and I didn't notice him missing that night. When I woke up, I noticed that the cat wasn't staring down into my face going "Feed me" and heard some strange sounds, and went to my window and saw my cat rubbing against the front door frantically and meowing.

Surprisingly, he hasn't tried to go outside since.

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hotpinkdragones
2005-08-29 04:17 pm UTC (link)

My two childhood cats were mainly indoor cats. One liked to escape for the evening every couple of months until she got beat up by a squirrel (not kidding). The other was scared shitless of the cars on the road in front of the house (she'd have a panic attack if you took her out there while holding her) and her two attempts to check out the backyard ended up with first, her falling into the pool, and second, knocking herself silly by running into a fence pole.

But we lived in a very urban area with a lot of feral cats. The biggest risk to cats were (1) cars, and (2) feral cats.

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	geekmagirl 2005-08-26 11:56 pm UTC (link)
	I let my cat out once. She was outside for five minutes before begging to come back in. Now when I open the door, she runs and hides under the table. Loser. But this means I'm the best pet-owner ever, right? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	jrs1980 2005-08-27 01:47 am UTC (link)
	Yes, indeed. You need to join smartpetowners. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	geekmagirl 2005-08-27 01:49 am UTC (link)
	I should! They can all pat me on the back and tell me how great I am. (Reply to this)(Parent)

maev_connacht
2005-08-27 03:38 pm UTC (link)

We adopted a cat last February who was rescued from the pound. She was a little less than a year old when we got here. For some reason, though, she is terrified of outside. If you open the door, she will run away. Once, my boyfriend tried to greet me when I got home from work by opening the door while holding the cat and she scratched the hell out of him trying to get down to get away from the door.

So, you know, indoor cat.

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	geekmagirl 2005-08-27 07:37 pm UTC (link)
	No, it's you being a SMART PET OWNER. Has nothing to do with the cat. (Reply to this)(Parent)

electricchick
2005-08-29 09:00 pm UTC (link)

One of my cats is a bit like that. We got her from the pound as a kitten, and she just has no interest in going outside. Our other two cats will try everything to get out (with a busy street and a yard we can't completely fence, it's not safe for them to come and go as they please). For our former stray, though, you can hold open the door for her and she'll just look at you like "You expect me to go where? Listen, you stupid human, I spent my kittenhood in the freezing snows of New England. I'll take my warm fireplace kthx."

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	darkrose 2005-08-27 01:42 am UTC (link)
	My cat is dumber than a box of hammers, and if I let him outside he'd be dead in an hour, either from being run over or because the other cats in the complex, random birds, and mice could all kick his ass. This doesn't mean anything, other than that I have a big stupid cat. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	nekoama 2005-08-27 03:32 am UTC (link)
	My cat's the same. She got outside once. Saw a motorcycle. Peed herself. Ran into the door. Still tries to get out though. Dumb little thing. :/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	oxydosic 2005-08-27 01:49 am UTC (link)
	I don't let my cats outside because our neighbor shoots cats because they sometimes go after his pheasants. Had a cat get shot when i was a kid, rather not relive that trauma. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	maev_connacht 2005-08-27 03:42 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus, did the asshat even apologize? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	oxydosic 2005-08-27 04:51 pm UTC (link)
	It's kind of rednecky out here. They consider it within their rights to kill an animal that might threaten their livestock. My dog got loose once and one of my other neighbors called animal control. The animal control officer told me she'd be perfectly within her rights to shoot my dog since she kept horses. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	threegoldfish 2005-08-27 08:38 pm UTC (link)
	Oh yeah. Even dogs that chase the wild deer up where my parents live can be shot by animal control. I can see the livestock argument, but not deer. I guess their thought is if it chases deer, it will chase anything. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	elanor_durall 2005-08-28 07:54 am UTC (link)
	I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a stray dog if it was chasing my horses. Though probably not on the first offense unless it was particularly vicious. And I would feel pretty bad about it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

mrbimble
2005-08-27 01:52 am UTC (link)

my kitty rules the house. she weighs about 12 lbs and she is definately Queen over the 65 lb dog.

however, said dog is a greyhound. inside, she completely understands the cat is off-limits? outside? she sees movement and she's gone. There's no way I can be sure she wouldn't kill the cat before she realizes it's someone she knows.

Ergo, kitty never goes out.

But no solution is perfect for ever person.

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	oxydosic 2005-08-27 04:53 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, my dog is the same way. She's fine unless something runs, then she's in hunter mode. Really wouldn't want to risk getting my cat accidentally mauled. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ladysorka 2005-08-27 02:05 am UTC (link)
	My cat is an indoor cat, purely because, uh, I live in an apartment. ...sometimes I let her out on the balcony with me? (Reply to this)(Thread)

telophase
2005-08-27 02:19 am UTC (link)

Same here. I'm too close to the parking lot and there's dogs and a couple of big MEAN cats that roam outside. I know my cat won't run away from a dog - I got her from the shelter where she'd been taken after getting into a fight with a dog - so I don't want her outside here. But I have plans to rent a house in a year or so, and I'll let her outside then, because there will be trees she can run up if necessary, and hopefully a cat door.

I call one of teh big MEAN cats Greebo, because he really is almost a dead ringer for Nanny Ogg's cat. He's enormous - head the size of a softball - scarred, dirty, solid muscle. Tailless, probably from Maine Coon blood or something. But my cat was sitting on the windowsill one night as I was petting her, he came by and STARED at us, then sprayed the air-conditioning unit outside and sauntered off. That night my cat - who had been fixed - went into heat.*

* OK, so cats can go through one more heat cycle after they've been fixed if the hormones haven't completely left their bloodstream, but I prefer to think the SHEER MASCULINE CAT PHEROMONES did it.

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iczer6
2005-08-27 04:14 am UTC (link)

I have five cats an only one goes outdoors.

Catrice rules the house, she has no interest in the outside and will kick and scream if you try to take her out.

Licorice has no interest in the outside and even if she did I wouldn't let her because she is a tiny little thing, and would get herself into a heap of trouble.

Tux got out once in the dead of winter, he was terrified and we were in a panic looking for him. We found him under the neighbors car the next day and he hasn't gone near the door since.

Widget has issues and is much to timid to be outside.

Gizmo goes out but he spends him time hiding under our car.

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	felinephoenix 2005-08-27 05:03 am UTC (link)
	Indoor, outdoor. Wherever Pussy goes, I follow. (Reply to this)

mistal
2005-08-27 05:29 am UTC (link)

I have three indoor cats. One that as soon as she's out, she goes back in. The other was never outside and therefor doesn't about going outside, so he doesn't ask. The third one, love to go outside but we don't let him, our street is way too dangerous: 3line one-way that is deadly, specially around 5pm, for any living thing too stupid to check for cars.

But when I was young we had only outdoor cats...

So how cruel/stupid does that make me?

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ianthefira
2005-08-27 05:42 am UTC (link)

Personally, I think most people should make an effort to keep their cats in, if only for their own sake.
But still, cats are all different. If someone thinks they can trust their cat to take care of itself, then by all means, go ahead.

Of course, that probably also makes me a hypocrite. Some of ours go out. One's too old to want to go out anymore, another can be trusted, and a third can go out if he's supervised, because he's a moron outside.
The other three have no interest--funny, since two are semi-feral and lived outside.

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	lovelyzelda 2005-08-27 07:59 am UTC (link)
	Uhh...it is pretty difficult to keep an indoor/outdoor cat inside all the time. They're crafty little bastards. When my cat was younger and faster, it was hard to leave the house to go on vacation without him slipping out. Now that he's 18, he's probably spending his dotage bitterly thinking about those five years we took off his life by not letting him out. (Reply to this)

papervolcano
2005-08-27 04:39 pm UTC (link)

Letting your cat out is not being a stupid pet owner. Stupid pet owners are people like the woman who owns the chaemelion my bloke is looking after. The woman who has said chamelion in a far-too-small tank, hadn't cleaned it out in a month at least, hadn't fed it in a good long time, and has unprotected bulbs in the tank, so the poor chamelion has big burns. She's doing better now he's looking after her, but...

I've two cats. One of them might have been happy as a just-indoor cat, but the other would have gone spare. So we've catflaps installed, and they come and go as they please. They're happy, and I know they can look after themselves. We live somewhere rather rural, and the closest big road requires them trekking across the rough of a golf course, which I'm reasonably sure they find far more entertaining than a big strip of tarmac with whizzy things on it. Would I do the same thing if I moved somewhere urban? I doubt it. Not all animals are the same, and not all situations are the same. Holy situational responses, Batman!

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(Anonymous)
2005-08-28 04:10 am UTC (link)

My first cat was indoor/outdoor for most of his life till he died of feline leukemia (which we found out about after he got hit by a truck, broke his leg, and was brought to the vet for his injuires).

My second cat didn't make it to a year when he got hit by a car.

A kid on a bike got hit by a car on my street.

My cats are indoor cats now.

Where I see the wankiness on these posts is more the OP and her "That is NOT a viable option" - text only, comments come across as snide. Then the influx of ZOMG TEH EBIL.

Some commenters kept their cool and some were in it just for the war. But "mmm sludge" had me lol'ing.

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(Anonymous)
2005-08-29 07:10 am UTC (link)

The immortal words of Garrison Keillor (you have to imagine the musical accompaniment):

I want to go out - open that door if you love me.
Gotta go out, want to breathe the air.
I gotta get loose with that blue sky above me
I been here long enough, I got to be there.

I want to come in - what's the matter, can't you hear me?
I want to come in, I am your cat!
I gotta get warm with the people I love near me -
I been gone a long long time but now I'm back.

And now I want to go out - I'm an independent creature
I am a cat - we're the wandering kind!
It's the call of the wild - I gotta get back to nature
These paws were made for walking and now it's time.

OK, I'm back, but not for long - I'll soon be going
give me a bite now and I'm on my way.
Now open that door and I'll - Good grief, it's snowing!
Open up - lemme in - I'm back to stay

Well, now it's stopped, so thanks for all your lovin'
Gotta hop that freight, I'm a ramblin' guy.
Gotta hit that road - It's in my blood or something
I know you understand so please don't cry.

Hello it's me - I knew you'd probably miss me
So I came back, 'cause I missed you so.
But I can't stay long, so honey come and kiss me -
I think I hear that lonesome whistle blow.

I'm on my way, got to leave my mom and daddy
Got to say goodbye, want to here that highway hum.
Now I'm all alone, I'm feeling so unhappy -
It's time that I went back where I came from

Yes, it's time to go back, time to put that road behind me -
I drifted away, but I'm going back now.
Here's the little white house - here's that picket fence and the ivy
I'll scratch on the door - meow.

It's me...lemme in...I can here you talking in there
Hey - Mom!
All right, I get the joke!
Open up the door.

Meow.

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