(Post a new comment)

	squib 2005-11-16 11:16 am UTC (link)
	Don't know about "major", but I know quite a few Hellenes, actually. (Reply to this)(Thread)

chibikaijuu
2005-11-16 03:49 pm UTC (link)

Really? I saw the wank earlier, but didn't want to get involved by asking questions. I'd always rather assumed that it was pretty much a dead religion/religions (all the gods and goddesses had their own specific cults as well). I doubt these people were raised that way, and rather took it up as adults/teenagers, but if they *were*, I'd love to know, because that's *totally* cool.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

squib
2005-11-16 04:28 pm UTC (link)

There are no "dead" Pagan religions (and I know you don't intend anything by it, but please, *please* avoid using the phrase "dead religion", it's extremely offensive). Pretty much anything you can think of has someone reconstructing it, somewhere. (I worship the Egyptian gods, myself.) There are fairly large, well-developed Hellenic reconstructionist communities out there (the links I gave are just for LJ, but there's also a good page on Hellenic Reconstructionism on eCauldron.com. Many do have children and are raising their kids in their faith. I know there are plenty of second-generation Pagans out there, but I'm not sure how many second-generation Hellenes there are.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	narcissam 2005-11-16 05:35 pm UTC (link)
	Why is dead religion offensive? I thought it meant not practiced for a long period of time. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2005-11-16 06:48 pm UTC (link)

I'm not the original commentor, but I think I can hazard a guess --

* oftentimes, religions that most of society believes haven't been practiced for a long period of time might have some adherants still that just aren't in the public radar, and

* if you are indeed speaking of a religion that actually does have no adherants it runs the risk of coming across as a value judgement on the inherant worth of those religions (in other words, "okay, people may not believe in the Great Falumbwehbweh any more, but the people in the past who did believed fervently and that fact should be respected").

I'm inclined to agree with those points, but I also know what you meant. I personally tend to take a very liberal and to-each-his-own approach to religion, and someone telling me they believed in something rather unusual would just make me shrug and go, "....'kay, if that works for you, cool. Not my bag, but sounds interesting anyway."

Queencallipygos on LJ

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

narcissam
2005-11-16 07:44 pm UTC (link)

I see. I hadn't thought of the word 'dead' being used as a value judgment actually, but I can see how it could be taken that way.

This is probably because I'm interested in a number of so-called dead religions as a historical enthusiast, not as an explorer of religions.

Mesoamerican religion is a good example of a religion that was supposed to have died but continued on underground until this day. It's been transformed, but important elements of it have been kept and are very recognizable.

Historically, I'm more skeptical about some of the claims for a continuity for Classical religion, but that's a whole different story.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2005-11-17 07:01 pm UTC (link)

"Historically, I'm more skeptical about some of the claims for a continuity for Classical religion, but that's a whole different story."

Oh, me too. Hell, the Judeo-Christian religions have changed dramatically in practice since their inception, and they had much more continuous support. I think that a lot of the claims come from the belief that "old = legitimate", or are arguments to counter the belief that "new = illegitimate or crackpot." Personally, I don't care how old or new or based-on-what-little-we-know a religious belief is, if it works for you, cool. I'll argue the history if you want to get into a historic discussion, but that is different from arguing about the legitimacy of the faith itself. That's two different arguments (in other words, I support anyone's right to believe Jesus existed as a person, and hell, I actually believe thus myself; but, I will vehemently poke holes in the argument that the Bible is in and of itself a first source historic document that PROVES Jesus existed, because, compared to other historic documents, it doesn't hold up).

Queencallipygos on LJ

(Reply to this)(Parent)

squib
2005-11-17 07:24 pm UTC (link)

"I see. I hadn't thought of the word 'dead' being used as a value judgment actually, but I can see how it could be taken that way."

Yes. That's usually how I see it presented, actually. "Well, you have to be careful in your writing that you don't offend members of major religions, but that's just a dead religion, so you can use those gods however you want." Followed by complete astonishment that anyone would actually believe in these gods. If I had a dime for every time I've had a conversation like that (especially on a Stargate board, "they'd never make Jesus a Goa'uld because that would offend Christians, but Ra and Hathor are dead gods, so it doesn't matter" Arrrrgh!), I could buy myself a bigger house.

That, and it's slightly less irksome to say a *religion* is dead-- people who say the *Gods* are dead make me want to kill them. Slowly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	marylake 2005-11-16 07:44 pm UTC (link)
	I'm converting to Falumbwehbwehism right now. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-11-17 05:29 am UTC (link)
	Paganism? Nope, still practiced. And has grown a tad nowdays, too. Cue fundies ranting about 'the satanic signs of the times' tm. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	greenling 2005-11-16 08:06 pm UTC (link)
	I could've sworn there was some little ethnicgroupthing off in the ass end of Greece that still practices semi-traditional Hellenism, isn't there? As opposed to most recon groups (and to the point), but out of interest. shrugs (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmikhailovic 2005-11-17 09:36 am UTC (link)
	There's also a BATSHIT CRAZY group of Hellenists in Greece who have tied their beliefs to radical nationalism, and want to kick out and/or slaughter all the Christians. Most recons back slowly away from the crazy nationalsts, just like the Asatruar back away from the Nazi wannabes. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-11-17 10:35 am UTC (link)
	I know! They are like lunatic ultra-christian/islamic fundamentalists, only worshipping different gods. They make the rest of the Greek Pagans look bad... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kadath 2005-11-16 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, sweet ~~Aphrodite~~ ~~Jesus~~ Obi-Wan, it got even bigger. (Reply to this)

	rachel_pi 2005-11-16 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	I think this is my favorite part: No one accuses Christians of being insane or stupid ecause they believe in a God divided in three who is both father, son and spirit. Is this person perhaps new to the internets? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	vengeance_bean 2005-11-16 04:15 pm UTC (link)
	And English: who is both* father, son, and spirit.* (Reply to this)(Parent)

	esclaramonde 2005-11-16 04:20 pm UTC (link)
	I used to be Hellenistic Pagan, when I was a kid. Maybe I'll go back to it, now that I know there's a name for it aside from "Ancient Greek God Religion". :D (Reply to this)(Thread)

	pariforma 2005-11-16 05:53 pm UTC (link)
	The Hellenistic Recons are scary, dude. Whatever you were doing as a kid--writing poems to Athena, or running around naked with a bow and arrow in honor of Artemis--they're gonna tell you it's wrong. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kittikattie 2005-11-16 06:46 pm UTC (link)
	That's why I say I'm just an Eclectic who has some personal Greek gods. They tell me I'm doing it wrong, and I throw things at them and run away giggling. Or something like that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	goldberry 2005-11-16 08:13 pm UTC (link)
	I throw things at them and run away giggling. Dude? That makes you awesome. :D (And sounds like far more fun than my blank-stare-until-they-get-uncomfortable strategy ;p). (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pariforma 2005-11-16 08:20 pm UTC (link)
	Good for you. I just run away whenever I see the word "reconstructionist" in the user interest list. (Reply to this)(Parent)

kylenne
2005-11-16 11:26 pm UTC (link)

Tee hee. I'm a Hellenic Wiccan but I tend to stay away from the Reconstructionists unless I need some historical perspective. Because as much as I'm a stickler for knowing where the fuck your gods came from, how they were worshipped, and just knowing the context of the culture, I am not going to do something that doesn't work for me just because that's how it was done in the olden days. History and context are important but I think spirituality is a living, evolving thing and while we should know the past and learn from it, we shouldn't be absolute slaves to it. Most Reconstructionists act too much like Pagan-flavored fundies for my taste.

(BTW, have I told you lately how much I love your icon? I'm totally using that line the next time someone gives me shit.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kittikattie 2005-11-17 01:09 am UTC (link)
	Pagan Flavored Fundie: All the bitching of Fundie Christianity, none of the gods! Thanks. I used that line when someone did give me shit. They can take their wispy thin pale as a wafer gawths elsewhere. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	doomsday 2005-11-16 09:40 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, that's what I always referred to it as too. Knowing that there are followers of it still does render my standard argument against the Old Testament as 100% factual useless, but I'm actually quite pleased that such a cool religion is not obsolete. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	skewed_tartan 2005-11-16 06:12 pm UTC (link)
	I am certain that the mystery of Jesus Christ will one day be solved by an internet debate. They all seem to know what they'te talking about! (Reply to this)

	kroki_refur 2005-11-16 06:39 pm UTC (link)
	Reminds me of the current thinking about King Arthur. There's little doubt that there may have once been an ancient king named Arthur who united much of Britain, but the legends about him are just that. headdesk (Reply to this)(Thread)

	eilan 2005-11-16 06:50 pm UTC (link)
	Always remember that fpb could tell you a lot on that subject. About 3000 pages... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kroki_refur 2005-11-16 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, believe me, I know. He tried to get me to read his book once, but I tried to read the introduction and gave up pretty quick. Honestly, who gives a damn if Arthur really existed? shakes head at foolish Arthurians (Reply to this)(Parent)

	hereforthewank 2005-11-16 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	I saw that historically accurate movie about it so I KNOW there was. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	pariforma 2005-11-16 08:27 pm UTC (link)
	I'd give my kingdom and my horse for a nice exciting historically inaccurate King Arthur movie, like Camelot only without the singing (such as it was). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	littleshebear 2005-11-16 10:21 pm UTC (link)
	OT: Your I, Claudius icons are fab. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	pariforma 2005-11-17 04:06 am UTC (link)
	All praise is due to pixelbee on LJ and the poor_claudius LJ community. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	luthe 2005-11-16 06:47 pm UTC (link)
	I'll be over here, worshipping Athena with the rest of my schoolmates. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-11-17 06:55 am UTC (link)
	Yay for sharp, kick-ass virgin godesses. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kittikattie 2005-11-16 06:47 pm UTC (link)
	Happy Zombie Jesus Day I am more delighted by those 4 words than I should be. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	doomsday 2005-11-16 09:31 pm UTC (link)
	I know! I can't wait to use it on my Catholic family next Easter! They love my irreverant atheism so much! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sceach 2005-12-15 12:32 am UTC (link)
	I can't express the depths of the love I feel for your icon. (Reply to this)(Parent)

sceach
2005-12-15 12:31 am UTC (link)

So, if you stand in a place where Jesus once stood and feel spiritual, that is ok because millions of people believe he existed/claim they have proof he existed/cite internet articles that he did/did not exist.

But if you stand in a place where a Pagan goddess was said to have put in an appearance, then you're an idiot because fewer people believe in that, and there are fewer internet articles to back up her existence?

0_o

(Reply to this)