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Vigilant E. Rodent, Esq. ([info]vigilanterodent) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2006-03-03 13:41:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
"No, seriously, if HIV doesn't cause AIDS, why don't you inject yourself?"
Originally posted in [info]clairvoyantwank, until I came across the prize wank in the original rant's comment section, a fountain of WHOA.

Over at The Nation, blogger Richard Kim posts a rant about Harper's Magazine publishing an article by Celia Farber. Celia Farber, for those of you who haven't heard of her, has been making a name for herself since the 1980s arguing that HIV isn't the cause of AIDS.

PCR: Awesome!! Now I can go back to unprotected sex!!!

And then, Farber's defenders stepped into the fray:

Darin Brown (a professor of mathematics, apparently): Thank you for your editorial. It is a perfect example of the kind of behaviour Celia mentioned in her article. In a sense, your reply (using the terms "denialist" and "conspiracy theory", and quoting editorials which were never subject to peer review, including the infamous Cohen 1994 hatchet job, as your "best rebuttals"), only strengthens her piece.

The HIV/AIDS hypothesis is possibly the most refuted hypothesis in science. It remains in force solely because of politics. But the science demolished it years ago. It is only a matter of time before the politics weakens and reality prevails. You cannot deny reality forever.

[Cutting a little stuff out here, to keep this a manageable length.]

I would also suggest, Mr. Kim, that you read Harvey Bialy's new book, "Oncogenes, Aneuploidy, and AIDS", (if you CAN...your post is so smacking of scientific ignorance that I wonder...)


Will C.: I would be so much more impressed if you actually injected the live virus in your veins. If you alone are not enough for a scientific experiment, perhaps we could assemble all those who think HIV doesn't actually kill people to also inject the live virus in their veins.

Remember, because the virus is harmless, you can not administer any treatment.

And we will release the findings after you all die a peaceful natural death with your immune systems intact and properly functioning.

Wadda you say?

Up for the challenge?


And much, much more along that line.

Additionally, the sexy gossipmongers over at Wonkette post a link to the rant, which Wonkette commenter Gus does not approve of. The fight there is small, but, like an afterdinner mint, tasty.


(Post a new comment)


[info]kadath
2006-03-03 09:37 pm UTC (link)
Darin Brown (a professor of mathematics, apparently):

Academic asserting expertise outside his discipline! Red card! Red card!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]darkrose
2006-03-03 09:49 pm UTC (link)
Wow...watch how in the process of attempting to prove his thesis, he shoots himself in the foot:

Why then was AIDS initially so prevelent in the gay community?

Massive drug use (dozens of recreational and pharmaceutical drugs), massive sexual promiscuity (1,000s of sexual partners), and a psychologically toxic environment. All of these are known causes of cell-mediated immunodeficiency.

Why then were straight drug users not infected at similar rates?

Stop using the word "infected"! Your wording only exposes how deeply and subconsciously prejudiced you are to the infectious theory.


Now, I'm no biologist. But not only is he assuming that all gay men in the '70's and '80's used drugs--and that apparently, no lesbians did--but he goes on to specifically list having many sexual partners as a causative factor! If there's no "infection", how does having more sex partners have anything to do with it?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-03-03 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-03-03 10:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2006-03-04 06:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vengeance_bean, 2006-03-03 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]qem_chibati, 2006-03-03 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-03-03 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-03 10:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-03-03 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-03 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sheep, 2006-03-04 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-03-04 02:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-03-04 06:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-03-03 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-03-03 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2006-03-03 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-03-03 10:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-03-03 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-03 10:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]morgyne, 2006-03-03 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-03-04 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]morgyne, 2006-03-04 12:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2006-03-04 06:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dikaios, 2006-03-04 08:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-05 03:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2006-03-03 10:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2006-03-03 11:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2006-03-04 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 02:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-03-04 02:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2006-03-04 06:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doroc_sabah, 2006-03-04 02:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-03-04 05:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2006-03-04 10:21 am UTC

[info]emiweebee
2006-03-03 10:20 pm UTC (link)
*brain explodes*

Isn't part of their argument that it isn't HIV that kills you but the infections you subsequently contract, like pneumonia?

I hate medical!wank like this. My mom's massively into alterna-health, and while that's all fine and good, it can go way too far. I don't know how her herbs are healthy, but she totally accepts the St John's Wort does jack for depression. Or that medical science is biased against glucosamine, or that there's a giant conspiracy hiding the dangers of hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup.

Did you know cancer is attracted to sugar? Because it is. Apparently you can only get cancer if you consume massive amounts of sugar, which, I guess, settles in your lungs or breasts, thereby causing those cancers.

*goes off to take more pharmaceuticals*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]tigerlily
2006-03-03 10:48 pm UTC (link)
Did you know cancer is attracted to sugar?
?_?
Is the argument based in the idea that sugar rich diets => fat and most toxins bioaccumulate in fatty tissue (such as that protecting organs) and that causes the cancer?
Cause that would make some sense although not enough but..yeah.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-03 10:51 pm UTC

[info]tofuknight
2006-03-04 01:26 am UTC (link)
Well, I know that high fructose corn syrup IS the food of the devil because of how it messes with one's blood sugar levels (unlike other sugars and foods, it spikes the sugar level hours after you've consumed it, meaning you can consume a LOT of it and not feel the effects). I don't know anything about the cancer, though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]b_jellybean
2006-03-04 02:21 am UTC (link)
I'm not sure whether it's you or your mother saying this (so pardon my confusion and possible wank) but St. John's Wort fucked me up something awful when I was taking it, mostly beccause it gave me horrible mood swings. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have gotten wonderful benefits from it, but it bothers me when people assume that it can be a cure-all for everyone.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-03-04 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 05:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-03-04 08:16 am UTC

[info]bubosquared
2006-03-04 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Did you know cancer is attracted to sugar?

There's an OTP joke in there somewhere ...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Reposted to fix html
[info]white_serpent
2006-03-05 09:32 am UTC (link)
(what is it with me and italics tags recently?)

In my previous job, I worked for a company that was going to CHANGE THE WORLD (or at least make a fortune) via GRAS herbal ingredients in toothpaste ('cuz, see, the advantage of herbals is that you don't need FDA approval and thus can rush to market).

This has given me an extremely healthy suspicion of herbals. It's not that I don't think some herbal products contain things that work. It's just that it's frequently a good thing to isolate what the effective ingredients are, control the dosage, and try to get rid of the twenty million other things herbal products contain which might have some pretty unpleasant side effects. Which means... pharmaceuticals. (Oh! And, also, when it comes to toothpaste, herbals might also contain natural sugars. Which, hello, means you can't claim that your toothpaste doesn't promote tooth decay...)

Anyhow. Happy to say they never got off the ground.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]khym_chanur
2006-03-03 11:03 pm UTC (link)
So what's the explanation for blood recipients getting AIDS from tainted blood?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]waterfront
2006-03-03 11:12 pm UTC (link)
"God's punishing you for past transgressions," I presume.

That or you're just imagining it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-03 11:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]twoiskewl, 2006-03-04 04:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scootermcgaffin, 2006-03-04 11:29 am UTC

[info]darkrose
2006-03-03 11:47 pm UTC (link)
People who are getting blood transfusions aren't healthy anyway. They're not really infected, after all--they're just getting sick for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with AIDS (which doesn't really exist) or HIV.

With just a little tweaking, you can make the facts fit any crackpot hypothesis!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 01:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 02:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 02:10 am UTC

[info]rosehiptea
2006-03-03 11:35 pm UTC (link)
I have a vague memory of a male "researcher" making similar claims in the '80s, who had plans to inject himself on television with blood from an HIV positive person. (I believe a hemophiliac, but I'm not sure.)

He felt that AZT caused AIDS. And I guess he must really have believed it.

Mostly I shrug at these people, but I was saddened when read in an alternative paper about a man who ended up infecting his partner with HIV. People had convinced them that HIV didn't cause AIDS, so they had unprotected sex. Now he regrets it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]emiweebee
2006-03-04 02:14 am UTC (link)
That reminds me of my favourite story ever. My best friend was doing a paper on syphillis, and she recounted this one researcher, early in the infection's history:

He believed, since the symptoms of gonorrhea and syphilis are often similar (or the patient may have both), they were the same disease. To prove it, he took infected pus from a syphilitic prostitute and inserted it into his urethra. Later, he contracted gonorrhea (or what looked like it), decided his point was proved, and quickly succumbed to advanced syphilis.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]miss_padfoot, 2006-03-04 06:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-03-04 08:12 am UTC

[info]rachelmap
2006-03-04 12:01 am UTC (link)
For me, this story sums up the danger caused by the willful ignorance of the AIDS denialists:

"A Mother's Denial, a Daughter's Death"

By Charles Ornstein and Daniel Costello
LA Times Staff Writers

September 24, 2005

Christine Maggiore was in prime form, engaging and articulate, when she explained to a Phoenix radio host in late March why she didn't believe HIV caused AIDS.

The HIV-positive mother of two laid out matter-of-factly why, even while pregnant, she hadn't taken HIV medications, and why she had never tested her children for the virus.

"Our children have excellent records of health," Maggiore said on the Air America program when asked about 7-year-old Charlie and 3-year-old Eliza Jane Scovill. "They've never had respiratory problems, flus, intractable colds, ear infections, nothing. So, our choices, however radical they may seem, are extremely well-founded."

Seven weeks later, Eliza Jane was dead.

The cause, according to a Sept. 15 report by the Los Angeles County coroner, was AIDS-related pneumonia...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-03-04 12:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rachelmap, 2006-03-04 01:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kayla, 2006-03-04 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]number13baby, 2006-03-04 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-03-04 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beta_aquilae, 2006-03-05 06:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]symbeline, 2006-03-04 04:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zarla, 2006-03-05 03:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-03-05 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hickorydickory, 2006-03-05 05:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2006-03-04 02:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 02:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-03-04 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]loony666, 2006-03-05 07:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-03-06 02:03 am UTC

[info]daylightsparks
2006-03-04 12:14 am UTC (link)
Awesome!! Now I can go back to unprotected sex!!!

Whoo-hoo! *throws confetti*

(Reply to this)


[info]narcissam
2006-03-04 02:41 am UTC (link)
I'm just waiting for someone to tell us that AIDS is really psychosomatic. You get it because you think you've got it.

This explains why no one got it before we all heard about it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]daylightsparks, 2006-03-04 03:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 05:22 am UTC

[info]moonpigeon
2006-03-04 03:14 am UTC (link)
Where does this denial come from?!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]omnicrom, 2006-03-04 04:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 05:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 05:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 05:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 05:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-03-04 07:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 05:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2006-03-04 05:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 06:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2006-03-04 06:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 06:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-03-04 09:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 09:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-03-04 09:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 10:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-03-04 10:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-03-04 02:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-03-05 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-05 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-03-05 06:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-03-05 06:40 am UTC

[info]erototoxin
2006-03-04 04:18 am UTC (link)
Everyone knows it's caused by tent pegs.

(Reply to this)


[info]herongale
2006-03-04 05:05 am UTC (link)
I'd like to consult Dr. Tom Cruise before making any final decisions on whether HIV causes AIDS or not.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-03-04 05:26 am UTC
(no subject) - mirandafox, 2006-03-05 03:10 pm UTC

[info]annabelle_lee
2006-03-04 05:50 am UTC (link)
And here's our pwecious widdle AIDS dissedent now: http://www.reviewingaids.org/awiki/index.php/User:Revolver

Apparently Mr. "I R SMRTER THAN U" is an assistant professor at Eastern New Mexico University. I feel sad for all the young minds being screwed up by this tool.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-03-04 09:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]annabelle_lee, 2006-03-04 10:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2006-03-04 10:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]annabelle_lee, 2006-03-04 11:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2006-03-04 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]annabelle_lee, 2006-03-05 08:02 am UTC

[info]eilan
2006-03-04 10:08 am UTC (link)
How I hate pseudo-evidence...

Table 3 on p. 387 on that paper shows original CDC data that shows what the authors without exaggeration term a "perfect correlation between recreational drug use and AIDS" [among gay victims of AIDS in 1983]. In light of this evidence, I agree with Farber's statement that

a) among gay victims

b) correlation != causation

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]musette, 2006-03-04 12:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-03-04 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-03-06 11:24 pm UTC

[info]burntspaghetti
2006-03-04 01:48 pm UTC (link)
And this is why I have no time for the Foo Fighters.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-03-04 02:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2006-03-04 07:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]krazycat, 2006-03-04 11:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sabinelagrande, 2006-03-05 10:12 am UTC
(no subject) - mirandafox, 2006-03-05 03:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - mirandafox, 2006-03-05 03:15 pm UTC
It's a shame we have to die my dear - [info]mcity, 2006-03-06 11:26 pm UTC

redwarrior
2006-03-04 07:14 pm UTC (link)
Between HIV-denial and Holocaust-denial, I wonder how academia keeps on living with itself.

(Reply to this)


[info]grand_sealink
2006-03-05 05:57 pm UTC (link)
In the weeks after Eliza Jane's death, her parents created a website, http://www.ejlovetour.com , in her memory. Maggiore wrote lovingly of her daughter, wavering between despair at her loss and acceptance that Eliza Jane had simply chosen, as Maggiore put it, to "go home."

She struggled most with the whys.

"Why our child - so appreciated, so held, so carefully nurtured - and not one ignored, abused or abandoned?" she wrote. "How come what we offered was not enough to keep her here when children with far less - impatient distracted parents, a small apartment on a busy street, extended day care, Oscar Mayer Lunchables - will happily stay?"


I love how OSCAR MAYER LUNCHABLES are DOOM.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2006-03-05 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marciamarcia, 2006-03-06 05:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-03-06 11:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2007-06-17 05:32 pm UTC

[info]mcity
2006-03-06 11:15 pm UTC (link)
The HIV/AIDS hypothesis is possibly the most refuted hypothesis in science. It remains in force solely because of politics. But the science demolished it years ago. It is only a matter of time before the politics weakens and reality prevails. You cannot deny reality forever.
There's a flag waving somewhere, I just know it.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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