(Post a new comment)

	the_wanlorn 2006-04-20 02:30 am UTC (link)
	does the dance of Stop Being On My Side (Reply to this)

	esclaramonde 2006-04-20 02:38 am UTC (link)
	No I'm not anti-choice. I* am pro-life. I know what my choices are and I know what my stance is.* I'm not really getting what she's saying. It doesn't seem much of a stretch to me. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	azawakh 2006-04-20 03:20 am UTC (link)
	It's like she can't grasp that the "choice" also applies to others. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rowleyorama 2006-04-20 03:53 am UTC (link)
	You will not see me push my pro-life stance on others. I will educate if asked. I think she's trying to say that she, personally, would never have an abortion, and has made her choice. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2006-04-20 01:18 pm UTC (link)
	/me circles the word "choice" in that statement (Reply to this)(Parent)

	esclaramonde 2006-04-20 01:26 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I see- you're saying that she is pro-life for herself? That could be, but I think she's against abortion on general. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaimonkey 2006-04-20 03:07 am UTC (link)
	So how could people miss that mail_demon was being facetious, now? (Reply to this)

	hallidae 2006-04-20 03:09 am UTC (link)
	mrflagg needs a nice smack with something heavy. Like a bag of bricks...Dropped from an eighth story window. (Reply to this)(Thread)

chaimonkey
2006-04-20 03:19 am UTC (link)

Actually, I'm agreeing with him. Later on

scorpi084 answers the conundrum:

Also ... the rape thing. I don't get it

Either its alive and deserving of protection OR alive and not deserving OR not alive and not deserving. WTF difference does it make how it got there?

Because for people who support rape exceptions, it's not about "life" it's about punishing sluts who choose to have sex.

Basically,

mrflagg is making the point that abortion should be open to all women, and it shouldn't matter how they got pregnant in the first place.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

hallidae
2006-04-20 03:49 am UTC (link)

Okay, now it makes a bit more sense. The original post just made it sound like either everybody gets it or nobody gets.

I admit being a bit iffy on the issue myself. On one hand, the idea of some people deciding to just use it because they were too stupid or lazy to use a condom or go on the pill pisses me off. On the other, I think there are cases where a girl shouldn't be forced to carry a child she doesn't want. It's all a huge grey mess.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. ladybirdsleeps 2006-04-20 03:54 am UTC (link)
	[insert opinions on abortion contradicting your opinions on abortion here] (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. hallidae 2006-04-20 03:59 am UTC (link)
	[insert totally WTF-inducing statistics pulled out of thin air here] (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. chaimonkey 2006-04-20 04:01 am UTC (link)
	[insert completely anectdotal, emotional story on personal experience here] (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. adinaj69 2006-04-20 04:04 am UTC (link)
	[Insert somewhat mutual, yet somehow sadder experience here] (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. expeliarbum 2006-04-20 04:07 am UTC (link)
	[Insert icon love or any other random comment] (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. somnambulicious 2006-04-20 04:10 am UTC (link)
	[insert snarky comment to take it to fandom_discuss here] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. smo 2006-04-20 01:18 pm UTC (link)
	[insert obligatory beverage inhalation] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. ruuger 2006-04-20 01:34 pm UTC (link)
	[insert random snakes on a plane reference] (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. puipui 2006-04-20 08:15 pm UTC (link)
	[replies just to add the word "muthafuckin'"] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. chaimonkey 2006-04-20 04:09 am UTC (link)
	[breaks out the lube and tissues] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Just saving the rest of the wankas the trouble. ladybirdsleeps 2006-04-20 04:08 am UTC (link)
	[totally batshit analogy and accusations of getting laid more than I do] (Reply to this)(Parent)

chaimonkey
2006-04-20 04:00 am UTC (link)

He's a bit

njyoder in his abandonment of clarity for shock value, for certain.

I'm with you - it's one of those situations where the stupid/irresponsible people always fuck it up, but in this case it's more serious than, say, hall passes because we are talking about a potential life here. Regardless, I'm pro-choice because the alternative is so much worse, and people shouldn't have to have their rights taken away because idiots are abusing them as usual.

Personally though, if I were to get pregnant by to my own making I'd carry to term and adopt-out, since my personal ethics rule that it's a matter of responsibility. S'why I abstain, actually, because a pregnancy anywhere in the next five years would completely ruin me. But in no way could I validate imposing my own standards on someone else - I'm lucky enough to have parents who would support me, after all, and not everyone sees the world in the same way I do.

*goes for the paper towels*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	seiberwing 2006-04-20 10:54 am UTC (link)
	Very true. And here's me over here coming from an upper middle class family, who if she gets pregnant in the next five years will obviously have both the financial and familial support to carry a baby to term. But not everyone had that, so I can't be making the decisions based on myself. (Reply to this)(Parent)

v_digitalwytch
2006-04-20 06:55 am UTC (link)

Calling it a mess is more of an understatement.

When I was back in High School, a friend of mine was date raped. Of course this was back in those days before the awareness of a rapist being someone one knows being possible. She ended up pregnant and her mom was of the sort of 'If we don't discuss it, it will magically dissappear' line of thought.

'D' didn't know what her options were until the rest of our circle talked with her after she let us know she was pregnant, and despite our offers of paying for an abortion if that was what she chose, or take her to someone 'official' who could better lay out options with how to go about them since we were all just a bunch of teenagers who didn't know much beyond the basics.

It dragged on to where it wasn't an option for an abortion, and we don't know what her mother might've said, but adoption wasn't an option either.

'D' had the baby who looked a hell of a lot like the guy responsible and when it came to caring for him, well, I've seen plastic dolls treated with more care. It ended up being the rest of our circle of friends who pretty much acted like moms to 'G' until 'D' eventually moved in with her dad after graduation.

We still kept in touch but 'G' did fare better with grandpa in the picture, and last I heard he was doing pretty good so far at college. Last time we talked, he said he concidered us as his four moms and just conciders 'D' as the woman who carried him to term. 'D' eventually admitted years down the road that she just couldn't warm up to 'G' because he looked so much like her rapist even though he really had nothing to do with the circumstances of his birth.

Looking back with older eyes, it's hard to say what should've been best in that situation. 'D' still has more issues than a season of Maury Povich which could've still happened even if the rape hadn't, and while 'G' so far's turned out pretty good, I still feel he really deserved a better start off than a distant mom and grandma and it being mom's friends stepping up.

*sighs* I'm as pro-choice as one can get, though for me choice means having as many options to choose from be it having the baby, abortion or adoption.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	mistressrenet 2006-04-20 06:20 pm UTC (link)
	Yep. Just not necessarily in a tactful or coherent way. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ladybirdsleeps 2006-04-20 03:11 am UTC (link)
	Mrflagg wouldn't be half so annoying a shit-stirrer if he was actually, you know, entertaining. He's always making dumb jokes on one of my comms and I just want to beat a sense of humor into him. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	moonfruituk 2006-04-20 08:27 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, he hangs a lot on shitty_advice on LJ, and tends to be somewhat unfunny and a bit of a dick on there too... (Reply to this)(Parent)

azawakh
2006-04-20 03:17 am UTC (link)

Wow, pert_embrace.

First,

How can you derive that children in SD are neglected by legislation from one sentence? You obviously see child poverty as a simple thing to fix, but it's not, it requires a bit more than passing a few laws.

then,

as I've said in other comments, this simple statement does not cover the broad range of HELP to the citizens of SD. There is no reason for any child in SD to go hungry, unclothed, or without medical care. Any child who does, does so due to parental negligence (because aid is available) and not a lack of gov't aid.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

puipui
2006-04-20 05:32 am UTC (link)

There is no reason for any child in SD to go hungry, unclothed, or without medical care. Any child who does, does so due to parental negligence (because aid is available) and not a lack of gov't aid.

I haven't even read anything at all about governmental aid in South Dakota and I still call bullshit. There is just no possible way that this isn't bullshit, there's just not.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	oar 2006-04-20 05:49 am UTC (link)
	And even if he was right (which he's not) what difference would it make? Children don't deserve less help just because their parents are idiots. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2006-04-20 03:22 am UTC (link)
	Waaah! I didn't join political_wank to avoid these things. It is so hard not to yell at the morons on that thread. (Reply to this)

	oar 2006-04-20 05:50 am UTC (link)
	Hey, does anybody know what came out of all that talk about building a Planned Parenthood clinic in a SD Sioux reservation? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	fallingfortruth 2006-04-20 05:54 am UTC (link)
	The planned parenthood people basically told her thanks but no thanks, we're keeping this one and have no intention of starting a clinic on the reservation. It was sort of snarkily worded too. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rogue 2006-04-20 08:04 am UTC (link)
	Ouch. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	hallidae 2006-04-20 01:27 pm UTC (link)
	Well, damn. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	smo 2006-04-20 01:54 pm UTC (link)
	I don't suppose it occurred to them that the women on the rez might want a clinic there, too? Stupid white bitches. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mistressrenet 2006-04-20 06:22 pm UTC (link)
	... Wow. That's a special kind of stupid right there. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	aegflota 2006-04-21 01:34 pm UTC (link)
	Hubby and I have two cars, and we are "starving college students". Glad you used those inverted commas there. I might have thought you were playing at being poor! Anyway, I gotta go the spud's calling "boobies in bed" ARGH. (Reply to this)