eljuno
2003-08-24 10:02 pm UTC (link)

There ARE a lot of LJs that have a lot of whining to gain attention and attention only...it's annoying. You got a problem, deal with it...and trust me, there's always gonna be someone worse off than you are so buck up and get some help.

I agree when it's for attention only, but I know personally that I'm dealing with some shit (not eating disorders, but it's pretty much the second greatest "I'm an angsty teen, look at me angst!" problem out there, hence one of the big reasons I don't talk about it much) and I'm getting help, and I don't talk about it MUCH, but if I've moved down to near rock-bottom, I sure as hell am probably going to make some form of post about it, if only friends-only or private.

And when you're that deep..."buck up and get some help" is NOT going to help. Neither will "You got a problem, deal with it" That's one of the worst things about serious depression, especially with "extras", that either you really CAN'T put the world in perspective, or you find yourself angsting because you're angsting when there are people out there that have it worse than you.

...er, yeah. Sorry about all this, but...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

fandom_bitch
2003-08-24 10:27 pm UTC (link)

Okay, I can understand what you're saying. But I guess it really does depend on the person and what is going on. I suffered from agoraphobia about 10 years ago and after a while of living in my own private hell and not being able to leave my house unless willing to put myself through agonizing mental pain, I did "buck up" and get some help. It was NOT easy...not by a long shot. It was downright terrifying. But I'm glad I did it.

I think for me, if I KNOW someone is getting help (as you are) or trying to deal with their problem, being eating disorders, depression, anxiety, etc., then I am much more willing to cut that person some slack and be sympathetic and supportive rather than someone who whines and cries and KNOWS they have a problem and refuses to deal with it...they just want attention and are willing to get it at any cost, which is why they refuse to deal with it. THOSE are the folks I'm really talking about here (this is my long winded way of saying "sorry, I really should have clarified that").

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eljuno
2003-08-24 10:36 pm UTC (link)

No problem, I think I have a bit of a hair trigger at times, anyway.

Under those circumstances I completely agree. The proana, pro self-injury, pro whatever communities freak me out on some serious levels. I can understand having a behaviour set and not wanting to break it at the moment for fear of what might take its place, but either wanting help in starting, or anything like that? Brrr...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

angel_dust
2003-08-24 10:22 pm UTC (link)

I think what erinmiran is addressing, re: eating disording whining, is the silly communities I've seen that are "pro" anorexia. They are not peer support groups, they are not there to help each other, they are there to root for anorexia and glamorize it. They have flashy icons with messages about how much it roxxorZ to weigh 12 pounds. That kind of shit is the epitome of high-profile, romanticized teen angst. EDs *are* pychiatric illnesses for the purpose of getting attention. I don't mean that in a "OMG u suck, shut up and grow up!!1!" way ... I mean they are *real* illnesses. But places where a bunch of girls sit around and pat each other on the back for successfully puking up a rice cake and encourage each other to drop their body weights into the double digits are just wanky. Those are just girls who wish they had the willpower to have an ED so they could get attention, IMO. =P

(Reply to this)(Thread)

fandom_bitch
2003-08-24 10:33 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, I just found out about the pro-anorexic communities and my mind just boggled. I'm now waiting for the pro-OCD communities to start up. Or maybe the pro-[name your mental illness] communities. Ugh...

As a sufferer of a biochemical mental disorder, I really take offence at people who use them as an excuse to get attention and burden their friends and families, when I've worked so hard to "deal with it" and try to lead a healthy life. But that's just me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	I haven't seen pro-medical condition communities.. moonjaguar 2003-08-24 11:30 pm UTC (link)
	Maybe I should just suddenly stop taking my anticonvulsants and start a pro-epilepsy community! Seizures are sooo sexy and get a person lots of attention! So what if you're not always conscious enough to notice... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sorchar 2003-08-25 12:17 pm UTC (link)
	I'll start the pro-OCD community if you'll join...because you know, it's SO glamorous to be completely immobilized by thoughts that you find morally repugnant, yet can't get out of your head. And ooooh, the rituals are just so much fun! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	wakkymse 2003-08-25 07:21 pm UTC (link)
	dies I can just imagine these people trying to out-obsess each other, make the biggest, fanciest rituals...saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, that sounds familiar ;D -lee (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-08-25 09:43 pm UTC (link)

Guess I should stop taking insulin and inhalers cause that whole 'living, breathing' thing just isn't giving me enough attention.

I think I understand it's one thing to have a problem and get help, it'll take some time but at least your *trying* to get better. It's not an overnight thing but your taking the first steps good for you!

However I do get annoyed by those who disorders like a security blanket so they don't have to face reality. People who all but revel in their victimhood, making themeselves and everyone around them miserable neverou wrecks. I really have no sympathy for these folks.

And the people just faking it to get attention need to be shot.

Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	wakkymse 2003-08-26 01:14 am UTC (link)
	Yup...in fact, I knew it was a matter of time before I saw the pro-ana wank make it over here (having seen a lot of it by way of one of my LJ friends, who used to delight in trolling/arguing with some of the wankier pro-ana people IIRC). -lee (Reply to this)(Parent)

fandom_bitch
2003-08-25 09:56 pm UTC (link)

I'll so join. I'll even stop taking all my meds so I'll constantly check and count things and go on about how all the rituals take up so much time that I can never leave my house and eventually go back to being agoraphobic because of all the very horrid thoughts that are going through my head and ain't I so cool and look at me, I can out OCD anyone and even better, I'm prone to agoraphobia!

I'm so KEWL!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: sorchar 2003-08-26 01:08 am UTC (link)
	u beeyatch im so kewler than u i washed all teh skin off my handz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	fandom_bitch 2003-08-26 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	l00zr, im way kewler coz i wuz up all nite checking everything in my houze ovr n ovr nyah i only got 1hr of sleep (Reply to this)(Parent)

tempslut
2003-08-26 04:44 am UTC (link)

As a sufferer of a biochemical mental disorder, I really take offence at people who use them as an excuse to get attention and burden their friends and families, when I've worked so hard to "deal with it" and try to lead a healthy life. But that's just me.

I totally hear you on that. I spent eight years with the wrong diagnosis, and just last spring, I finally got the right one, as well as meds that work. Imagine if I'd gotten the right one--I probably would have finished or would be finishing school earlier, plus I wouldn't have fucked up a good year or so of my college career. But I can't dwell on the past now; I just need to be thankful I've gotten this far.

On a related note, what gets me are people who don't take their meds for some bullshit reason. "I'm not creative anymore." And you're creative without them? Let me tell you--before I got on my current meds, I was either too hypomanic to concentrate or too depressed to care. It's one thing if a certain type of medication doesn't work. I took Paxil for six years, and it didn't do a damn thing. However, you should never, ever, EVER go off medication without talking to your doc about it first. I completely regret not slowly tapering the dosage as opposed to cold turkey, simply because the withdrawal was pure HELL! (Of course, Paxil is more evil than most psychiatric drugs, at least in my experience.)

Okay...enough of the soapbox. I think I made my point. :P

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

snowball
2003-08-26 06:54 am UTC (link)

On a related note, what gets me are people who don't take their meds for some bullshit reason. "I'm not creative anymore." And you're creative without them?

Well sometimes reasons like that aren't as bullshitty as they sound. A couple years ago I was on Zoloft for moderate OCD. It turned me into a fucking zombie. Not only could I not do my glasswork anymore, I was literally incapable of feeling emotion--on 9/11 I just stared at the TV for hours and finally I started crying because I couldn't feel anything except for frustration at my lack of reaction. Basically it took me from one mental disorder and stuck me in another one. So I quit taking it.

But then again, I'm fairly functional when unmedicated. The worst that's ever happened was the time I sniped at a lady in a public lavatory who didn't wash her hands. I don't have any really debilitating rituals or anything, so the med wasn't really necessary for me. Maybe for someone with really acute OCD, staying on the med would've been the lesser of two evils.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

fandom_bitch
2003-08-26 08:20 pm UTC (link)

This is actually interesting. I have heard a lot of friends tell me they had this very same reaction when taking Zoloft. I take Zoloft for OCD and for the panic attacks I get and am on a high dosage (my checking got so bad I couldn't get a full night's rest because I kept waking up and checking the time, the windows, the stove, the door, even to make sure my animals were all there) and I consider it a life saver! It totally changed my life around and I finally can lead a relatively normal life. :D

I tried Celexa for a bit. My doctor thought it might help me on a lower dosage but it did two things that alarmed both me and my doctor...first there was the insomnia - that was brutal. Two hours of sleep a night and that was about it, and then it made me extremly hyperactive. We have no idea why it did this, but I was off that stuff fast and back on the Zoloft. Heh. I'm pretty hyper to begin with, I totally didn't need the help.

There's actually a well known legal case in Canada involving a fellow, Profesor Starson, who claims his anti-psychotic drugs inhibits his mental capabilities (he's a brilliant physicist) and refuses to take his meds. He's been battling the Canadian justice system as his family and his medical doctors are trying to force him to take his meds.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2003-08-27 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	...what, you're legally required to take meds in Canadia or something? o__O;;; Why does this matter to the courts? I DON'T GET IT. Argh! --checkers, a lurker without a JF! Yay! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: fandom_bitch 2003-08-28 07:51 pm UTC (link)
	Oh no...in his case though his family tried to force the issue when he started refusing to take them. There's no legal requirement, but if someone is deemed incapable of making the decision for themselves, there can be legal action taken...at the same time though, it is violating Canada's Human Rights Code and that's what a lot of this controversy is about. (Reply to this)(Parent)

tempslut
2003-08-26 08:56 pm UTC (link)

See, that I understand. I had similar experiences with Paxil, as has my brother (who, weirdly enough, was prescribed that for ADD. The hell?). I'm referring to people who have major depression or bipolar disorder who don't take their medication for bullshit reasons. If there's something more minor involved, that's totally different.

For me, though, obviously, without medication to help control my particular condition, I wouldn't be able to function at all. That's what I'm getting at.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	lots42 2003-08-29 05:08 am UTC (link)
	People who don't wash their hands after going to the can -should- be yelled at. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	snowball 2003-08-29 05:28 am UTC (link)
	Oh I agree completely. It's just the security people who didn't. Fuckers. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: fandom_bitch 2003-08-30 04:19 am UTC (link)
	That is just too gross for words! Not washing hands after going to the toilet. Ew! (Reply to this)(Parent)

fandom_bitch
2003-08-26 08:32 pm UTC (link)

Oh, I hear you on the wrong diagnosis thing. No one made the connection that my weird little habits were actually OCD AND as a child, anxiety and related disorders weren't even considered disorders, so I got labelled as being "sensitive" and had a "neverous stomach" and it didn't help that I was also hyperactive. Finally about ten years ago, a very perceptive doctor and therapist figured out what was really going on (expecialy when I came to them a wreck because it took everything I had to leave my home and go see them to get help) and started treating me for the correct things and what a difference it made. I felt like I came out of a horrible fog that was my life and there was this really amazing world out there. I've never looked back.

Like you, if things had've been different, I would have finished school a lot earlier, probably would have taken a totally different course in my life, but at the same time, there are no regrets and I blame no one for the years of being misdiagnosed. I realise the people around me were just going on what they knew at the time and were genuinely interested in treating me and helping me cope.

One very dear friend of mine committed suicide. He had severe panic attack disorder. His note said he just couldn't live in constant fear of life anymore. If only he had gotten the help he needed. And I sometimes wonder if that could have eventually been me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

tempslut
2003-08-26 09:12 pm UTC (link)

In my case, they were right about the depression, but they didn't realize--and I didn't realize, for a very long time--that there was more to it than depressive episodes. I was also very, very hypomanic, especially once I went on the Paxil. I also had been diagnosed for ADHD, and for years, I, as well as others around me, thought the hypomanic-ness was just the hyper side of my ADHD. It wasn't until last spring that I finally figured it all out.

I have no regrets, either, mainly because at least one positive thing has come out of all my missteps. Even if that weren't so, I'd look at my mistakes as something to learn from. And finally, I'm just glad that I got help now rather than wait until it did damage to my career or relationships. Sadly, not everyone can say that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	nekoneko 2003-08-24 10:49 pm UTC (link)
	It's beyond wanky, it's fucking wacked. I also thought that not seeing someone's ribcage through their skin = a good thing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

moonjaguar
2003-08-24 11:26 pm UTC (link)

Those are just girls who wish they had the willpower to have an ED so they could get attention, IMO

I've seen girls post that they were trying to "catch" an eating disorder, that they thought if they hung out in this community and posted that they'd magically wake up one day with anorexia. I've seen people post proudly about that funky body hair that appears when one is extremely underweight. I find that extremely frightening.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

fandom_bitch
2003-08-25 10:02 pm UTC (link)

See Fandom_Bitch.

See Fandom_Bitch walk up to stupid little twat.

See Fandom_bitch walk up to stupid little twat and smack her upside the head.

See Fandom_Bitch say "There, that enough attention for you."

I hate stupid little twats who want to "catch" shit like this. Given a choice to have a mental disorder or not, I'd be perfectly happy to not have one at all, thank you very much. Ugh.

As for the body hair that develops when one is extremely underweight, well, I guess if you wanna be a walking skeleton, that's the price ya gotta pay. Doesn't make it attractive to say the least, but there ya go.

Of course, some people ARE attracted to body hair, mind you, I'm thinking that it's the body hair that naturally grows there when one is healthy rather than disgustingly thin.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	coyotegirl 2003-08-25 01:49 am UTC (link)
	I skimmed through a couple of those "pro-ana" communities a few weeks ago. Scares the crap out of me. You'd think that LJ would have a problem with communities that encourage self-harm, really... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	quinctia 2003-08-25 01:52 am UTC (link)
	It's actually why I'm a member of the anti-ana community. Just a solidarity thing. It's not incredibly active, but...even shortening the names of diseases to "ana" and "mia" like they're cutesy is a bit disturbing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sorchar 2003-08-25 12:18 pm UTC (link)
	Even worse, I saw "Beautiful mia" floating around out there somewhere. Because having your teeth rot out of your head from the stomach acids brought up when you induce vomiting is sooooo very beautiful. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	eljuno 2003-08-25 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, and the heart trouble caused by the constant puking is SO KEWL! And who needs that stinkin' esophogas, anyway, I'm PERTY! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	oxydosic 2003-08-25 04:53 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, you'd think LJ would care..but they don't. I've tried to report that comm before and they gave me some BS about how LJ is not legally responsible, blablahblah. Watch one of those kids die and the parents come suing. The kid agreed to LJ's terms, not the parents. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: coyotegirl 2003-08-25 05:34 pm UTC (link)
	I wonder if I could dredge up some support from people who had had eating disorders to go t o the LJ powers-that-be and complain about those communities being offensive? They've shut down offensive communities before. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	oxydosic 2003-08-25 06:17 pm UTC (link)
	I doubt it. Once in awhile someone who has 'been there' will show up and beg these kids not to hurt themselves like this. You might get one who admits they knows it's a problem and they need help. The rest are like, 'get out, this is a SUPPORT community, we can do what we want with our bodies!' It's pretty sad. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: coyotegirl 2003-08-25 07:30 pm UTC (link)
	I saw that when I was browsing. It both frightens and saddens me. (Reply to this)(Parent)

moonjaguar
2003-08-26 07:12 am UTC (link)

It would be nice. People have tried to get those pro-ana/pro-mia communities shut down and nothing is done. However, anything ending in _wank gets the ax in short order. I imagine there's someone doing a lot of rimjobs to LJ support to get some things shut down and other things kept up. At least point-and-laugh communities aren't promoting themselves as "a lifestyle, not a disorder/disease".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	moonjaguar 2003-08-26 07:14 am UTC (link)
	whoops, forgot to look below. Derrrr. I am a repeater. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lots42 2003-08-29 05:11 am UTC (link)
	I actually bitched about this some time ago. They replied with some folderal about how these communities are mostly support for stopping ana communities (bullshit) and oh yeah, they're talking with lawyers to see about the legallities of hosting them. Blah blah blah. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	oxydosic 2003-08-25 04:58 pm UTC (link)
	I am completely nauseated by those communities. Watching them pat each other on the back for throwing up, teaching each other what foods they can eat that will be the least icky coming back up, going 'i am 5'6" and 115 pounds i am so fat OMG' and having people agree that yes indeed, they are disgustingly fat. It's horrifying. And the worst part is LJ doesn't give a damn. (Reply to this)(Parent)

cheyinka
2003-08-25 07:58 pm UTC (link)

It's a little sad that these pro-self-destructive-behavior communities have popped up on LJ... but it was something that was going to happen, I think.
I mean, there have been newsgroups like that on Usenet forever... and if the cross-posting, flame-war-starting, pointless-trolling behaviors have cropped up in LJ, communities like this were bound to follow. (Although I would suspect they're rather more prominent on Deadjournal. Last I checked, 2272 members there listed 'crying' as an interest. o.O)
Unfortunately, most of the "WEE, I can't sit in an exit row because I weigh less than the exit door" people (no, I don't know if that comment actually exists, I made it up) wouldn't have gone to those newsgroups... (or known how to find one, maybe?)
...I wonder what the pro-anorexia groups would think of me. I mean, I'm underweight, and I'm actively trying to gain weight, so am I Jabba the Hutt?

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fandom_bitch
2003-08-25 10:12 pm UTC (link)

I used to be underweight in my teens (thyroid problems) and was the ENVY of all the girls because I was so painfully thin. I had no body fat to speak of and was also very tall. They kept asking what my secret was. A few even asked if I was anorexic or bulimic. I usually was offended because I ate more food than a teenage boy could pack away and still had my doctor on my case because I couldn't gain weight. I was also anaemic which didn't help matters either.

Personally, I hated being that thin and when my thyroid finally burned out and I started gaining weight, I went too far the other way. Given a choice to be honest, I'd rather be heavy than not. At least I don't get asked stupid questions about being anoexic and what my secret is to maintaining a weight of 105 lbs at 5'10". :P

The communities overall are alarming and the fact that LJ doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about it AND sees fit to ban communities like Fandom Wank and not these really irks me. I'd like to know how Fandom Wank and its sister communities are more harmful than the pro-anorexic/bulimia ones are.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tempslut 2003-08-26 04:48 am UTC (link)
	Maybe one of the pro-anorexia/bulimia community heads is buddy-buddy with one or more LJ administrators? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cheyinka 2003-08-26 06:46 am UTC (link)
	Well, see, the pro-eating-disorder communities are just Expressing Their Opinion, while Fandom Wank is Hurting People's Feelings. Or something like that. Right? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	snowball 2003-08-26 07:05 am UTC (link)
	I always wondered why communities like that were permitted to exist. LJ doesn't allow hate communities--why does it allow communities that encourage people to hurt themselves? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

moonjaguar
2003-08-26 07:17 am UTC (link)

I've seen communities that promote self-mutilation/cutting/self-injury. All I can say is OWWW and What the fuck?? While there are people who use scarification as a form of body modification like piercing or tattooing, there's generally a design or pattern involved. Not a case of "I'm so kewliez! I cut my wrist 2day. I saw my tendons!!11. Blood pretty!"

I've never understood cutting or cutters but I have friends who have struggled with self-injury and people like that piss them off in a big hurry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eljuno
2003-08-26 08:24 am UTC (link)

I've seen communities that promote self-mutilation/cutting/self-injury.

I belong to a message board that COULD be seen as being a BIT like that, in that we don't make people swear to give it up while they're there.

Basically, my take on it is that not everyone's ready to stop yet (some people are REALLY afraid of what might happen without the possibility of that safety valve...and I can understand why...) and I figure being as honest as possible, and giving a few pointers (first aid, never while drunk, AWAY from arteries, have someone you trust enough to take you to the hospital if things get out of hand) is a pretty good way to go about it.

On the other hand, if you're giving someone cheers for having cut that day or whatever, or see it as cool or "romantic" (the FUCK?)...murder kill destroy...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

virago
2003-08-31 03:04 am UTC (link)

I have to check this comm more often; it's late, but I just wanted to comment on something obvious.

>>I've never understood cutting or cutters but I have friends who have struggled with self-injury and people like that piss them off in a big hurry.>>

I've seen this in many places - people who take their problems seriously and try to deal with them are most pissed off by people who glamorize them or think it's cool. Moreso than the general population or general outrage, and moreso than the same person re: other problems.

I can't justify my own burning hatred of maudlin gawthy-poetry-posting pseudo-depressives, because I know I'm just as irritating - but I have seen it elsewhere.

eh, that's all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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