September 11 Heroism...wank?!

The movie United 93 was released over the weekend, and our friends at IMDB are already discussing it in a calm and rational manner.

It starts with brianweissman88 informing people that people are mistaking bravery for heroism.


I really think that people overuse terms like "miracle", "beautiful" and heroic", and many comments I've read about this film demonstrate that. It is very important that these words not be taken lightly, since their careless use denigrates the truly beautiful, the genuinely miraculous, and the inarguably heroic. In the case of the flight 93 passengers, I think the correct term to describe them would be "brave", but they are definitely not heroes.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who will have a knee jerk outrage reaction to what I've just said, so let me clarify my statement. I think that the passenger's revolt was an act of desperate self preservation, and really nothing more. True heroism is assuming an unnecessary risk to accomplish something selfless, often with an uncertain outcome. For example, imagine if the people on flight 93 had the option of parachuting out of the back of the airplane to safety, but instead decided to risk death by staying behind to wrest control of the plane from the hijackers. They certainly knew of the hijacker's intentions because of cell phone conversations, so a decision to forgo safety in an effort to prevent the plane from destroying another building would definitely be heroic. Unfortunately, given the absence of a safe alternative(the parachute), the passengers' decision to fight back is merely "brave". Now, bravery isn't a bad thing, and it's a hell of a lot better than sitting in a seat paralyzed with fear, but it's also a far cry from heroism. The firefighters who climbed up into the burning towers at tremendous risk ARE genuine heroes, and their sacrifice was altruistic. We'll never really know the concrete details of what happened on flight 93, but we shouldn't cheapen the term "heroic" by assigning it to some brave individuals who fought back when there was no other option.

To quote Gimli: "Certain death? Small chance of success? What are we waiting for?"

Your thoughts are welcome, and thanks for reading.


Arguments supporting and denying this claim follow.

-- Intentions have nothing to do with heroism.

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. So if I aim to shoot a little kid and thus my intention is to kill the kid and I end up shooting a person behind the kid who was going to kill the kid himself then I'm a dman hero. Moron. Intentions change everything and affect everything.

and

To be a hero, you must sacrifice or jeopardize your life for some unselfish reason to others-not to say that the Flight 93 passengers were selfish-they had a right to naturally want to save themselves first.

It then becomes a debate about if anyone on that day was actually a hero.



By your own logic, the firefighters were not heroes either. Not a one of them knew the buiding was going to collapse. They were simply stuck in it when it did.

How many do you think would have rushed in if you had told them "the building is going to collapse in 40 seconds, you won't be able to rescue anybody, and your children will be left fatherless..." I'll bet nobody.

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...at least the firefighters knew there was some danger, e.g. being burned by the fire or killed in the building. They know how dangerous their jobs are every day and knew how dangeous it would be climbing the 1,368 ft. building to save people from the fire on 9/11. They are true heroes-not only on 9/11-but every day of their jobs.

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Eventually iamtiger82 finally rolls out the definition of the word hero. Someone had to.

Even the conspiracy theories get a slight nod: However I believe the plane was destroyed by Air Force heros which I feel is obvious.

Some other tidbits:

Heres the thing - the victims were not heroes, and the killers were not cowards. Indeed, the killers were the ONLY people on 911 who deliberately sacrificed their lives.

and

deeb0: Heroes, nah. A hero is someone who shows exemplarary selflessness. Courageous beyond a doubt, more than most other people, yup.

And yes, many soldiers and Marines, jump on grenades. That is hardly an uncommon occurrence.

donut44: I didn't realize jumping on grenades was a common occurrence, but if you say so, I must believe you.

So does how often it happens have baring on the bravery of such an action?

In case you're still undecided, beast of burden points out: A hero kills people...people who wish them harm. A hero is part human and part supernatural. A hero is born out of a childhood trauma or out of a disaster that MUST be avenged (which is, as mouse onaga pointed out, a quote from The Office's Dwight, but no less amusing in this context).

EDIT: For those who aren't members or who don't wish to log in to IMDB in order to see the post, you can view it here.