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	honorh 2006-05-20 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but there are laws against making love in public. There are no laws against breastfeeding in public. In fact, there are laws protecting it. I'm sorry, but I can't understand what's "obscene" about breastfeeding. (and here I go, fapping all over the thread) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iwanttobeasleep 2006-05-20 05:25 pm UTC (link)
	faps with you I don't think that a picture is the same as the act itself. The act should be protected, after all, it's an important thing to do, and hiding it cannot always be the easiest. But the picture can still be obscene because there is nothing necessary about it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	marylake 2006-05-20 07:13 pm UTC (link)
	I think of it more as people with wedding pictures as their default icon. Not necessarily offensive or obscene, just tacky and annoying. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	honorh 2006-05-20 08:35 pm UTC (link)
	Why would a wedding picture be tacky or annoying? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	marylake 2006-05-20 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	...Um, I think anything I say here will probably start wank. And I'd rather not wank over this, as it's just personal preference, so please forgive me if I don't answer your question. (Reply to this)(Parent)

gunshou
2006-05-21 01:22 am UTC (link)

For the same reason the "precious child" baby picture icons are (IMHO) tacky. Why choose pictures of your real life family to represent yourself in a public forum? I don't care how cute you think your wedding was, and if I care to look at your personal pictures I'll come look at them in your journal. That's just my opinion though, and I wouldn't attack someone for using such an icon; it's not wrong or offensive or inappropriate. I just think it's, as I said, tacky.

Totally personal preference, mind you.

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platedlizard
2006-05-21 05:27 am UTC (link)

That gets right down into the whole purpose of icons, doesn't it? For me, and I suspect for a lot of people, icons represent the way we present ourselves online, our interests mainly. Pictures of family, people we persumably know in Real Life and have little need to converse with in an online forum, are a bit out of place.

Strangly enough I don't have a problem with people having their spouse in an icon, but am totally creeped out when they use one of their kids.

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azawakh
2006-05-21 05:32 am UTC (link)

Strangly enough I don't have a problem with people having their spouse in an icon, but am totally creeped out when they use one of their kids.

I have that same reaction. I think it's because the spouse has the ability to say, "Hey, not comfortable having my face out where John/Jane Q. Netstalker can recognize me," while the kids really don't have the ability and/or sense of potential disaster.

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	platedlizard 2006-05-21 07:41 am UTC (link)
	Which is quite possibly why I find breastfeeding icons so disturbing. You know that somewhere out there some pervert is wanking off to them. (Reply to this)(Parent)

frequentmouse
2006-05-20 08:09 pm UTC (link)

Since the hive vagina has already labeled me a wanker for making this point, I'll leave it to you to state it in more moderate form.

Except I won't. Because the "breastfeeding is icky" point of view is so damned retro, reminding me of nothing less than the conversations I overheard from the white trash neighbors when I was a child, denigrating every aspect of mothering as a bore and a drag and children in general as worthless, while pumping out babies as if there was no alternative.

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	gunshou 2006-05-21 01:26 am UTC (link)
	I think the issue is LJ doesn't like nudity for the default icon. Period. This is completely the LJ team's perrogative and not an insurmountable rule. Breastfeeding pic = naked breast. Why is this a problem? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	andra_dodger 2006-05-21 10:35 pm UTC (link)
	Worshipping motherhood as the ultimate expression of femininity is new and cutting edge now? The New Feminine Mystique, back and better than ever! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	frequentmouse 2006-05-22 01:17 am UTC (link)
	I was a feminist before you were a possibility, so back off on the rhetoric. There is a middle ground, which comes with an understanding that infant mammals are all pretty much alike, and that their care and feeding takes a lot of time and effort but is, in the long run, capable of being both interesting and somewhat amusing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

andra_dodger
2006-05-22 01:48 am UTC (link)

You said the old fashioned way was to denigrate motherhood. I disagree(d): the old fashioned way was to worship motherhood as the One True Destiny of Real Women (tm).

I don't see what that has to do with this:

There is a middle ground... their care... [is]capable of being both interesting and somewhat amusing.

although I do agree with what you're saying and am no rabid CFer or child-hater.

This: I was a feminist before you were a possibility, so back off on the rhetoric.

however, is a little silly.

Did you watch feminism in the original Japanese? Did you read the femme-slash when you could only get it from zines? Have pity on this poor, unworth nube!

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	m_butterfly 2006-05-22 03:34 am UTC (link)
	And now I love you a little. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2006-05-23 09:09 pm UTC (link)
	Did you watch feminism in the original Japanese? Did you read the femme-slash when you could only get it from zines? Have pity on this poor, unworth nube! And is she a feminism BNF (complete with rabid minions)? And what are her thoughts on ~~yaoi~~ yuri? - Odd (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kittikattie 2006-05-20 08:18 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think it's obscene. But I don think there's a difference between "this is beautiful and natural" and "I am going to ram this in your face because I think I'm a better parent than you." Most people I see with those icons are the latter. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mookie 2006-05-21 01:45 am UTC (link)
	Thank you. You've hit upon what I think is the heart of why those icons annoy me - it's the people who use them and their neverending agendas that include touting cloth diapers and home schooling as the only healthy way to raise a child. (Reply to this)(Parent)

nutshellibrary
2006-05-20 10:19 pm UTC (link)

I'm with you. And furthermore, I'm pretty sick of the comparisons of breastfeeding to sex, urinating (not in this thread), or anything of the sort. Breastfeeding is sort of in a class of its own - purely the act of feeding one's offspring; nothing more, nothing less.

I suspect part of why they seem so rabid is because breastfeeding mothers do find themselves frequently under attack. Changing the default picture is not that big a deal, but the message behind it (sexualizing the nursing, for one) hits a sore spot.

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	(Anonymous) 2006-05-21 12:30 pm UTC (link)
	I suspect part of why they seem so rabid is because breastfeeding mothers do find themselves frequently under attack. Since WHEN? All I've ever seen is how feeding your child with anything OTHER than breast milk makes you a horrible mother. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

nutshellibrary
2006-05-21 06:09 pm UTC (link)

Really? That's ALL you've ever seen? You've never seen or heard of nursing mothers being asked to cover their children's heads, or nurse them in a bathroom stall? Or seen people compare nursing (something these women do with their infants) to a sexual act? You've never seen or heard of nursing mothers being asked to leave stores or malls? Had their Drs. tell them they need to supplement for some unfounded reason or another? I can't think of a single news story where a woman had CPS called on her for pictures of her bottle feeding her child, but I think of two where a breastfeeding mother did.

Both sides get their own share of slack, sure - especially from one another. But to seriously say that breastfeeding mothers have no issues whatsoever is uninformed at best.

...And this is why I try so hard to avoid breastfeeding/childbirth related topics. I can't stop myself from wanking.

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	magic_lilybean 2006-05-21 08:59 pm UTC (link)
	I think what I would take issue with is stating that BFing moms find themselves "frequently" under attack, though. Have I heard of it happening? Once or twice. Have I ever heard of it happening to anyone near me, or even ever gotten so much as a funny look, being a BFer myself? No. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	nutshellibrary 2006-05-21 10:19 pm UTC (link)
	I would agree with that. After posting, I realized the word "frequently" was a poor choice, but there's no way to edit. As for how often it happens, I think that varies by where you live / who you might be around. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mistal 2006-05-21 03:35 am UTC (link)
	, but I can't understand what's "obscene" about breastfeeding. For some people it might not be the act that is obscene, but the breast showing. That's why LJ doesn't want them, it's not the act, but the nudity. Personally I don't care, but some do. (Reply to this)(Parent)

greenling
2006-05-22 05:49 am UTC (link)

I can't understand what's obscene or sexual about naked people (who are not having sex, obviously), but people do tend to gripe about that and/or get aroused.

People are stupid. Then, lawsuits. :(

I'm not terribly fond of breastfeeding, but because it reminds me that I have usable breasts and omg ew no, not because some kid is touching anything I want to go near... and I realize that those are my issues, not theirs.

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