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Gilraen ([info]ladyvorkosigan) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2006-05-21 16:00:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Debunking White Takes on International Adoption
Over on Debunking White, [info]recumbentgoat posts an article about international adoption titled "Bought Colored Kids"* that begins Along with dreadlocks and a non-white lover, the coolest accessory of the white liberal “left” these days is a bought colored kid. Most of the commenters are pretty civil, but man does the thread go on forever and a few exchanges get more than a bit heated.

* Full disclaimer: I looked at the article, thought "TL;DR" and went on to the comments.



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[info]gal_montag
2006-05-21 11:21 pm UTC (link)
The point, which he seems to be missing, is not that it's inherantly eville for a white family to adopt a child of a different race, but that, generally, a white family would be ill prepared to deal with the things that that child will face. (although that's arguable, there are children out there who are pretty messed up from being raised as though they were not minority children and then being unable to assert majority status when they get out into the world and who resent their parents for not preparing them or for being part of the racism they face.)

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(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-21 11:46 pm UTC
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[info]azawakh
2006-05-21 11:29 pm UTC (link)
OT, but (re: chreebomb) I don't know why people can't use the shift key at least for serious debate. Even with punctuation, it kind of fucks up the flow of language and makes shit more of a headache.

(Reply to this)


[info]toph
2006-05-21 11:38 pm UTC (link)
It sounds more like her parents were just plain fucked up than a white parents adopting nonwhite children problem. Way to make your problems the world's problems, yo.

Not saying there aren't inherent difficulties with mixedrace families. But her arguments about how 'all' white parents are treating 'all' nonwhite children are pretty damn personal.

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(no subject) - [info]azawakh, 2006-05-21 11:51 pm UTC
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[info]adora_spintriae
2006-05-21 11:48 pm UTC (link)
[info]recumbentgoat is a troll, right? Please, let it be a troll.</s.

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(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-22 12:16 am UTC
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[info]darthmaligna
2006-05-22 12:02 am UTC (link)
Saying that white parents are across the board ill-equipped to raise children of colour is kind of like saying that straight parents are ill-equipped to raise gay children. But I think mine did an okay job, even though they have absolutely no clue what my position in society turned out to be like.

That article was way, way tl;dr, but the two things that I'm thinking about from reading (some) of the comments is whether or not it's ZOMG evil for white American parents to adopt American orphans of colour (who, as I understand, desperately need it, particularly older children), and why people seem to think that white people are going into these countries and stealing babies whose parents haven't died. From, you know, AIDS or something.

And what about if I did move to, say, Korea for a couple of decades and adopt a child? Because I would consider that to be totally awesome, particularly if I were the one doing it.

Also, I kind of hate the whole debunking_white community. Yes, white privelege is real. Yes, it's a problem. No, you should never ever take ANY problem in life that seriously. NOTHING is that serious. Levels of seriousness on this scale just cannot exist. Sorry, you lose. Get a sense of perspective and a sense of humour and get back to me.

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[info]dommichan
2006-05-22 12:32 am UTC (link)
True story: I'm a very light skinned (like, Mariah Carey light) African-American woman who was adopted by two African-American parents in an upper-middle-class-predominantly-white (as in, we were the only family of "color" from when I was four until I was eleven) neighborhood. My father has a similar skintone to mine, while my mother is much darker.

When I'm with dad, I get no questions or anything. When Mom and I go out together, that's when the funny looks, double-takes, and "Hey, you're mixed or something, right?" shit comes into play. And I had someone recently ask me if my parents "act as white as I do" because of things like my speech patterns (forgive me for not using urban slang 95% of the time) and my musical tastes (let's hear it for the Spill Canvas). It's this ridiculous thing where most black people won't accept me, as I'm too "white-washed" for their tastes. And most white people...well, they just assume I'm hispanic and go about their business until they meet my mom.

Where am I going with this? I guess I'm just trying to point out that issues such as the one that post's talking about aren't limited to just adoptive families where there's multiple races; It's kind-of a hodge-podge of societal cultural expectations plus a dash of simple ignorance sometimes.

(Although, my friend Kate calling me her "Albino black friend" is pretty damn funny, I'll admit.)

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(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 12:42 am UTC
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[info]khym_chanur
2006-05-22 01:02 am UTC (link)
Why does the author of the essay consider him/herself to have been "bought" when s/he was in an orphanage before being adopted? If the adopted parents payed money to his/her birth parents for the "adoption", okay, but being "bought" from an orphanage?

Also, is this person saying that it's better for a child to stay in orphanages or foster homes rather than being adopted by someone of a different race? I really can't tell.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]linadarkstar, 2006-05-22 01:48 am UTC

[info]aerobot
2006-05-22 01:03 am UTC (link)
Gee, I know a woman who adopted two autistic children so she could give them the care they needed and because no one else wanted them. I guess she's evil and ablist for doing that, because she can never understand the discrimination they face. Obviously they're better off in a million foster homes.

*takes a headache tablet*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]missm, 2006-05-22 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-05-22 03:08 am UTC

[info]khym_chanur
2006-05-22 01:12 am UTC (link)
Wow, apparently adoption in and of itself is racist, regardless of who you adopt!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]deadgayrobin, 2006-05-22 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2006-05-22 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-05-22 04:09 am UTC
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[info]moonjaguar
2006-05-22 01:20 am UTC (link)
Jessy1019 the anti-adoption net.activist would cream herself over transracialabductees.org.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-05-22 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]isntitironic, 2006-05-22 01:36 am UTC
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[info]chaimonkey
2006-05-22 02:00 am UTC (link)
Summary of post: "My family life sucked and therefore every other situation similar to mine does too!"

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(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2006-05-22 03:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]princessdot, 2006-05-23 04:38 am UTC

[info]photosinensis
2006-05-22 02:07 am UTC (link)
The things you learn from wank:

Milk is rape.
Tea is abortion.
Most women like their men like they like their coffee: ground up and in a burlap sack, freeze dried, advertised by a guy in a sombrero, sold to them at outrageous prices by a Ph.D. making minimum wage, and smacking of cow rape.
Adoption is abduction.
Everything is racist*.

*Admittedly, this one is also covered in Avenue Q.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]isntitironic, 2006-05-22 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fevered_ego, 2006-05-22 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-22 03:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2006-05-22 02:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elemcee, 2006-05-22 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2006-05-23 04:19 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-05-22 02:37 am UTC (link)
The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that in the adoption community, the charge I hear most frequently leveled at adoptive parents is that they only want their "healthy white infants."

To an extent, this is true... traditionally, healthy white infants have been extremely desirable, and long waiting lists are involved, where minority infants and children or physically or mentally disabled infants or children are often "undesirable" and the adoption process can be much quicker.

And I will admit that when my parents adopted me and my two adopted siblings, they asked for white children... which means somewhere out there, there is a person of colour who could have been adopted by my parents, but I took their place. That does make me uncomfortable, though my adoption does not.

A lot of people do have a lot of legitimate concerns about transracial adoption. But when it gets to this level, it amounts to damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't attitudes towards white adoptive parents: they can't win. Either they adopt white, in which case they are racists who took a white child instead one of the many minority children who need adoptions, or they are cultural rapists who are attempting to prove their lack of racism by adopting a minority child.

There has to be a better way to address these issues without making it morally unacceptable on either side for adoptive parents. Children cannot remain in orphanages, regardless of race: and if the majority of adopting couples are white, this means that we do have to accept transracial adoptions to white families.

Instead of attacking them, we need to figure out how to provide better education and understanding for adoptive parents who do transracial adoptions.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-05-22 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fevered_ego, 2006-05-22 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2006-05-22 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-05-22 04:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2006-05-22 02:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wickedwitch, 2006-05-22 07:05 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-05-22 02:59 am UTC (link)
Yes. All white people are privileged. And all white privileged parents see children as accessories. It's just a reality they're going to have to face.

http://community.livejournal.com/debunkingwhite/360077.html?thread=6081933#t6081933

That's such a crock of shit I don't even know where to start.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:25 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-22 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 04:05 am UTC
... - (Anonymous), 2006-05-22 01:04 pm UTC
... - [info]ehann, 2006-05-22 11:39 pm UTC
... - [info]missm, 2006-05-23 03:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2006-05-22 07:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zaliesiren, 2006-05-22 02:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aegflota, 2006-05-22 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2006-05-22 09:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mathilde, 2006-05-22 10:34 am UTC

[info]amyheartssiroc
2006-05-22 03:03 am UTC (link)
Isn't the assertion that white people can't even fucking *exist* without being racist just a little bit racist?

Oh, wait. Minorities can't be racist. Never mind.

So should I go kill myself now, or would that be perpetuating white supremacy too?

/angry sarcasm

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-05-22 03:05 am UTC (link)
All white people are privileged.

.......... WHAT.

So - I'm just *imagining* my dead-end job, empty bank account, huge pile of bills and tiny, bug-infested apartment?

The stupid, it burns.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-22 03:10 am UTC
(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-22 04:55 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 04:57 am UTC
... - [info]renata_hpjc, 2006-05-22 02:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2006-05-22 03:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2006-05-22 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:40 am UTC
... - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2006-05-22 03:58 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:59 am UTC
... - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2006-05-22 04:09 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 04:12 am UTC
... - [info]chaimonkey, 2006-05-22 02:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]roswellingram, 2006-05-23 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-22 02:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-22 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-05-23 03:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2006-05-23 04:41 am UTC

[info]symbeline
2006-05-22 03:18 am UTC (link)
Gee, and all I've ever wanted was an electric car. Clearly, I'm either not liberal enough or not cool enough.

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Semi-OT
iwanttobeasleep
2006-05-22 03:30 am UTC (link)
Let me sound out this theory on you. . .

The most racist groups are the ones that have a self identity. White people are becoming less racist because it means less to be white, so they care less about race and more about other things. Blacks are becoming more racist because their self-identity is strong, so race means a lot to them. I think this is especially apparent in Asian communities: If you stick a few Asians with other races, they don't tend to be really racist, but if you have a large community of Asians, they end up really racist, especially against Asians who don't match how they think Asians should act.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Semi-OT - [info]wood_beez, 2006-05-22 03:38 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:39 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - iwanttobeasleep, 2006-05-22 03:41 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:44 am UTC
... - iwanttobeasleep, 2006-05-22 03:46 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:47 am UTC
... - iwanttobeasleep, 2006-05-22 03:48 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:48 am UTC
... - iwanttobeasleep, 2006-05-22 03:51 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 03:52 am UTC
... - [info]michmatch, 2006-05-22 08:05 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-05-22 04:32 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 04:58 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-05-22 05:07 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-05-22 05:00 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]sorchar, 2006-05-22 07:03 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-05-22 07:18 am UTC
... - [info]sorchar, 2006-05-22 07:39 am UTC
... - [info]mathilde, 2006-05-22 10:37 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-22 08:01 pm UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-05-23 02:53 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-23 03:37 am UTC
Re: Semi-OT - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-05-23 03:11 am UTC

[info]also_not_a_pipe
2006-05-22 03:32 am UTC (link)
[info]jonathankorman:But then in an attempt to respond to that, one immediately encounters a series of damned if you do, damned if you don't paradoxes...I don't think it's an attitude problem on my part that I find this situation confusing and frustrating.

[info]chreebomb: no.although i understand your frustration, the problem is that you are still thinking in the hegemony of white supremacy.


Wow. Earth logic is racist. Who knew?

(Reply to this)


[info]mcity
2006-05-22 04:00 am UTC (link)
I'm an accesory? Sweet!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-05-22 05:09 pm UTC

[info]cadesama
2006-05-22 04:04 am UTC (link)
Oddly, this whole thing reminds me a great deal of a comment from that ass Rick Santorum when he was on the Daily Show. He said that we should ban gay marriage because Congress has a duty to legislate the ideal family.

Yeah, there are problems with interracial adoption. Sometimes people adopt kids for the wrong reasons. Sometimes people get pregnant for the wrong reasons. But that never means that they shouldn't have the right to muddle the fuck through it. Although, of course, I can't say that articles and discussion like this that stir the pot aren't good for those families. The most important part of dealing with these issues is to think about them, after all.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dr_tristessa, 2006-05-22 06:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_padfoot, 2006-05-22 02:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dr_tristessa, 2006-05-22 07:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cadesama, 2006-05-22 04:42 pm UTC

[info]brown_betty
2006-05-22 04:16 am UTC (link)
I was going to fap away about how my cousin is certainly not an accessory to her parents, but then I realized they're republicans. My bad. Carry on.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 04:19 am UTC

[info]wrongly_amused
2006-05-22 04:29 am UTC (link)
The problem I have with [info]recumbentgoat's post isn't that she doesn't have valid points. Caucasion couples who go out to adopt with *any* notion of race involved need to seriously check their issues at the door and really think about their motives. Adoption is a serious life choice that's going to influence a child's life powerfully, and if race *has* to be an issue, there's a problem. Additionally, even if a caucasion parent *can* find it in themselves to overlook the aspect of skin, they certainly need to consider whether they are prepared for the social ramifications.

No, the problem I have with people like [info]recumbentgoat is that she offers a warning without the purpose of a solution. Her anger and frustration at what she went through is perfectly justified and well-defined, but it's scattered and unfocused; her essay drives forward without heading toward a productive destination. Pointing fingers only goes so far. Unveiling racism is important if we want to recognize where society needs work, but exposing the issue as though it's void of productive resolution only further inspire the very knee-jerk reaction its attacking.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 04:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-05-22 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2006-05-22 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-05-22 05:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2006-05-22 10:38 pm UTC

[info]skewed_tartan
2006-05-22 04:36 am UTC (link)
I really wnat to ask recumbent_goat if black people adopting white kids furthers white sumpremecy or not. Since my friend (whose blonde, blue eyed, and freckled) who was adopted by a black family at a very young age said of her childhood "Actually I thought I was black, just...whiter. It wasn't until I was older I realized I was a different race."

Just to see if its head starts spinning around in rage.

And yes being adopted saved her from being raised by a drug addicted mother (who admits giving up her daughter was in her (her daughter's) best interest) or the foster care system.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-05-22 04:57 am UTC
(no subject) - pink_lightning, 2006-05-22 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-23 04:03 am UTC
... - pink_lightning, 2006-05-23 04:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exdee, 2006-05-22 03:06 pm UTC

[info]skewed_tartan
2006-05-22 04:55 am UTC (link)
You snort and say with hostility, hey, we never stood in the way of you and your culture. You were the one that felt uncomfortable around Koreans for a long time. You were the one that didn’t want to take Korean language classes. You will point out that you did “your job” and it is my fault that I didn’t respond.

Um wow, can we say "very, very, narrow world view, as in, it happened to me so it happens to everyone else!" boys and girls?

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