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	darkrose 2003-12-15 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	Ginmar = Margin?!?!?!? All is clear as fucking crystal to me now. (Reply to this)

	virago 2003-12-15 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	All I have to say is: She cited no sources in her post, then spends the rest of the thread bitching out the other guy for not citing sources. I get pissed off too when people blur the line between extremist and non-extremist, but that's just moronic. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	pyratejenni 2003-12-15 11:29 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, she did -- some of the more current feminist authors. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	virago 2003-12-16 05:31 am UTC (link)
	Book title, page and all, as she seems to suggest that whatshisface should do for every sentence? For everything she says? No. Granted, it does seem like he's using stupidly outdated sources and making giant generalizations. But still, glass-houses rule applies. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	visp 2003-12-16 07:52 am UTC (link)
	Her exact words were "Please provide titles, dates, authors." And she usually does include things in hers. I'm not saying she's not... overly excitable, but her points (though long and rambling and sometimes resembling a diatribe) are well-written and usually backed up with cite stuff when necessary. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	pradaloz 2003-12-16 01:43 pm UTC (link)
	Plus, she got a really assy response from the guy who asked her for a list of reading material. Geez, jackass, she did what you wanted. No need to get snotty about it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: visp 2003-12-16 10:59 pm UTC (link)
	And he never cited. Or if he did, I missed it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

seventy_three
2003-12-16 01:49 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, she may be well-read, but I have to ask myself what she's trying to achieve. If she just likes to vent and cuss and hear/see her own opinion (which seems to be her idea of activism) she's doing a great job. If she's actually trying to persuade people she's right, then "Fuck you! Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron!" is not really the best way to go about convincing someone who already likes to toss around terms like feminazi. The actual content of her posts get lost amongst the spitting and swearing.

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	Re: visp 2003-12-16 10:49 pm UTC (link)
	Very true. Oh well, what's the internet for, if not to vent? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	virago 2003-12-16 03:08 pm UTC (link)
	...usually? I don't follow her work, so I have no idea what she "usually" does. I'm just saying that if you're going to curse someone out for not doing it, perhaps you should do the same yourself. Just saying. Note: I said nothing about the quality of her writing, so I don't know where you're getting that from my comment. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: visp 2003-12-16 10:48 pm UTC (link)
	I'm just saying that if you're going to curse someone out for not doing it, perhaps you should do the same yourself. Just saying And I'm just saying that for the majority of the rant/wank/flamewar/whatever on the arguement, she did. Not page numbers or anything, but authors, and dates and stuff. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	virago 2003-12-17 01:59 am UTC (link)
	Ooookay, maybe I missed the bibliography part, but I'm not going to back-and-forth about this forever. It's beside the point anyway. If you want to crow that you're right and you vanquished the eeeeevaile troll-creature, please feel free. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: visp 2003-12-17 04:48 am UTC (link)
	gives funny look Troll? Which one, and what did I do to vanquish it? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	virago 2003-12-17 03:50 pm UTC (link)
	...that would be me, whom you've spent several comments attempting to smack down. I'm just saying "fine, whatever; I give up; I don't feel like arguing such a small point anymore. You win." Okay? Done? Please? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: visp 2003-12-17 10:19 pm UTC (link)
	Disagreeing and smacking down are two very different things, but alright, done. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Feminism? tee hee

deoridhe
2003-12-15 10:00 pm UTC (link)

I'm just amuse by her bitching women out for not wanting to be called feminists when the suffragettes just wanted to be able to vote. *giggles* I mean, it's not like we all have to magically agree because we've got vaginas, not penii. *snickers* I'm proud to call myself a feminist, but I'd defend any other woman's right to not call herself a feminist any day. It's all about choice, baybee.

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	Re: Feminism? tee hee pradaloz 2003-12-15 10:12 pm UTC (link)
	It's all about choice, baybee. Ohsotrue. I have to admit, though, that girls/women who treat "feminist" like it's a dirty word make me want to commit random acts of violence. But those are my issues to deal with as I must. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee deoridhe 2003-12-15 10:19 pm UTC (link)
	True enough, but telling them they're ungrateful bitches won't help them view feminists as anything more positive, no matter how true it is. le sigh ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee pradaloz 2003-12-16 12:05 am UTC (link)
	Wait, you mean punching people in the face isn't an effective way to convey my message? Damn! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee crickets 2003-12-16 02:06 am UTC (link)
	How about not shaving your legs? That always makes a strong feminist statement, doesn't it? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee smo 2003-12-16 03:08 am UTC (link)
	Well, in my case, it makes the statement of, "I'm a lazyass bitch who can't be arsed to shave her legs in the winter when no one's going to see them." I wouldn't presume to speak for all feminists, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee crickets 2003-12-16 06:00 am UTC (link)
	"I'm a lazyass bitch who can't be arsed to shave her legs in the winter when no one's going to see them." Word. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee moonjaguar 2003-12-16 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	Well, in my case, it makes the statement of, "I'm a lazyass bitch who can't be arsed to shave her legs in the winter when no one's going to see them." Or my armpits. I'm not a feminist.Just that just make me a hairy pre-Neanderthal? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Feminism? tee hee deoridhe 2003-12-16 04:38 am UTC (link)
	I know.. shocking but true. wipes tear from eye You'd think they'd just listen to people more intelligent than them... but no. sob (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2003-12-15 11:56 pm UTC (link)

Hm. I was wondering when this'd show up. What a train wreck. You know, it's funny how I never noticed how wanky that woman can be when she posted on the board before. Then again, that's probably because I couldn't have been bothered to wade through the RPF flamewars that resulted. Oh well. You'd think she'd at least learn to be civil online...

In any case, has anybody gotten Germaine Greer/Ann Coulter femmeslash ideas after reading this?

stalkeryik

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	(Anonymous) 2003-12-16 12:22 am UTC (link)
	Having tried to wade into the fray, I quickly realized it was futile and retreated. Whatever coherent argument there was has long since disappeared. LaGuera25 on LJ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Oh.. (Anonymous) 2003-12-16 01:53 am UTC (link)
	But we're having so much FUN yelling at each other. ships off for warehouse sized bottles of lube. -Shiplizard. Also Oti. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaos_priestess 2003-12-16 12:24 am UTC (link)
	blink blink blinkblink lets icon talk (Reply to this)

(Anonymous)
2003-12-16 02:13 am UTC (link)

You know I think my problem with these debates is that I'm starting from the belief that humanity in general tends towards viciousness.

Give some people power and they will abuse it. Whether they are male or female isn't really the point.

Admittedly the gender who has had the power has usually, historically speaking, been male. But that doesn't excuse a woman's similar abuse of power.

And really a lot of suffragettes had what we would consider quite conservative views about the place of women and the ideals of feminism. The Pankhursts didn't even want Universal Suffrage and Emmeline Pankhurst actually disowned one of her daughters because she became an unwed mother.

Even ignoring the facism, religious zealotry, fraud and communist leanings that also divided them.

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	smo 2003-12-16 03:10 am UTC (link)
	Not to mention the bigotry. The founder of my undergraduate college was a racist and anti-Semite who basically forced a black woman to drop out of "her" school. Also, she loved Wagner, who bores me into a stupor, so she's on my "shi-ne" list for that alone. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Bigots deoridhe 2003-12-16 04:40 am UTC (link)
	rolls her eyes Nothing says 'we want equality' like an additional 'over them.' (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Bigots smo 2003-12-16 01:59 pm UTC (link)
	Some being created more equal than others, naturally. rolleyes Ah, Martha Carey Thomas, you magnificent bastard. (Reply to this)(Parent)

I see you, and raise you one OB

siegfriedwanks
2003-12-18 03:28 am UTC (link)

My Professor of Japanese culture told us in class that Japanese aren't made to wear Western suits and look like monkeys when they do. He also informed us that all Chinese people are ugly, in a class with quite a few students of Chinese, Korean and Philippine descent. Needless to say, the man himself looked like a distilled version of Hagrid on a bad hair-day.

A few years later, he had a really bad stroke and ended up in a wheelchair. I smiled and thought 'Karma baby, coming right back at you.'

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	Re: I see you, and raise you one OB smo 2003-12-18 04:53 pm UTC (link)
	Japanese aren't made to wear Western suits and look like monkeys when they do. boggle And this guy was entrusted with teaching you guys about Japanese culture? That's just... WTF?! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I see you, and raise you one OB siegfriedwanks 2003-12-19 12:49 pm UTC (link)
	That's just... WTF?! I know, and though it would be a bit cruel to say the stroke served him right, I couldn't help but find it mildly amusing that he lost the ability for speech. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lcsbanana 2003-12-16 09:17 am UTC (link)
	ohman. to my ETERNAL SHAME i've been following this, since as much as I intensely dislike (gin)(mar), I feel she's correct in her ideas about feminism. but oh god, so many hours i've spent reading that board. my head, it hangs. (Reply to this)

	siegfriedwanks 2003-12-18 03:35 am UTC (link)
	Margin is completely right, I don't see the wank. (Reply to this)