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Pyrate Jenni ([info]pyratejenni) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2006-06-02 20:35:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Fantastico

Oh, NFP. You so crazy.
Over on [info]nonfluffypagans,[info]rogue_priestess poses an ethical quandrary. She's been attracted to this guy for several years, it's mutual, and though he's currently in a monogamous relationship, he's not happy. Given the Rede and all, she's wondering what the ethics of the situation are:

I've been taught to adhere to the "greater good" and not compromise my ethics, thereby not putting myself in a position to feel guilty and ashamed for making the "wrong" or "bad" decision later in life, and I'm wary of incurring the wrath of what I expect to be karmic retribution.

But there is also this undeniable animal instinct that refuses to let it be. In our logical minds, we clearly see and understand getting involved with eachother would be wrong and it would hurt others (B's current girlfriend). But then why is there such a strong urge regardless? "All acts of love and pleasure are my rituals." Does this mean that we should just go with it? How can other people judge us as doing something wrong when all we do is, in the microcosmic universe (as above, so below, as without, so within), a direct act of Divine Will? Is it then not the will of the Gods that we find some comfort and pleasure in eachother?

As long as we both clearly understand that the satiation of the carnal lust is the fullest extent of our interaction, no one else is affected and thereby they should not be hurt. It's just sex; it's not a romantic relationship, it's not anything that would or should alter anyone's life path. Where is the harm?

With no specific "holy books" or "scriptures" to rely upon other than the "guidelines" put forth by the Rede and the Charge of the Goddess and a few other "ideas" or "tenets" of wicca, how would a person make the above decision based on the influence of their spiritual beliefs? How to reconcile "Divine Will" with "an it harm none"? Who is the authority on what is considered "right" and "wrong" and what qualifies said person/entity to do so? Society? God/dess? Ourselves as a reflection of God/dess?



People tell her.


One post in particular provokes an exchange with Swisscelt, which continues on in a different post.

ETA: Added a quote from the post.



(Post a new comment)


[info]yosei
2006-06-03 12:58 am UTC (link)
Am I the only one confused why she's asking about cheating on a pagan comm? Not that pagans have no moral ethics, but since there's no set rules about it (to my knowledge..), it seems like she was just trying to get some answers, and was totally OT for the comm. :/

Other than that, it was boring and turned tl;dr part way through.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]miss_padfoot
2006-06-03 02:36 am UTC (link)
I would guess she asked it in NFP because she thought she'd get a more sympathetic audience, though I have no earthly clue why. In any case, she obviously thought wrong.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rimrunner
2006-06-03 05:37 pm UTC (link)
Several of us who are members of that comm were wondering that, too.

I'm guessing it's because she thought that Pagan = polyamorous, which, yes, I've met more polyamorists who adhere to Paganism than to anything else, but that doesn't mean that ALL of us are.

And anyway, even if that were the case, cheating definitely != polyamory, and several people took it upon themselves to explain the difference. Woohoo.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]wrongly_amused
2006-06-03 11:56 pm UTC (link)
She was trying to get somebody to justify her asshattery and figured a pile of overly convoluted spiritual "reasoning" could do it. Luckily, most of the members on that comm come off as rational who can recognize BS when they see it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]aerobot
2006-06-03 01:30 am UTC (link)
So now B is telling me how he is unhappy in his current relationship (forced monogamy)

Forced monogamy. Ahahahahahaha, that's hilarious. How dare that bitch put a gun to his head and demand that he not have relationships with other women? Obviously he's perfectly justified in having 'another women' with that sort of horrible treatment. :P

(Reply to this)

My relgion, batshit be thy name
[info]joie
2006-06-03 01:34 am UTC (link)
She clearly quoted the rede. 'an it harm none do what you will" and still posted. This girl wants attention methinks. Then of course this leads to "eating meat is harming" wank and "broccoli feels pain" wank in a few moments. Any bets?

If he's unhappy get a divorce, then have sex. Didn't South Park teach you anything. (write the script then get high.)

This my friends, is why I'm pagan in my real life and not on the internet.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name
[info]delcj
2006-06-03 02:13 am UTC (link)
This girl wants attention methinks.

agreed. i hope she's getting only snappy answers to her stupid question. i wouldn't want the Internets to cater to her attentionwhorishness.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ravenscanary, 2006-06-03 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bangoskank, 2006-06-03 04:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 04:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenscanary, 2006-06-03 03:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bangoskank, 2006-06-03 11:20 pm UTC
Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 06:04 am UTC
Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name - [info]joie, 2006-06-04 10:13 pm UTC
Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name - [info]bastet, 2006-06-03 04:40 pm UTC
Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name - [info]joie, 2006-06-04 10:14 pm UTC
Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name - [info]aislyn, 2006-06-04 05:02 pm UTC
Re: My relgion, batshit be thy name - [info]joie, 2006-06-04 10:15 pm UTC

[info]hickorydickory
2006-06-03 01:41 am UTC (link)
I wish I could have affairs and claim it was justified by Divine Will.

(Reply to this)


vomitymcpuke
2006-06-03 01:44 am UTC (link)
If he's so unhappy, let him get a damn divorce and then fuck him. Moral dilemma solved!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2006-06-03 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-06-03 02:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]breecita, 2006-06-03 05:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 05:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercutia, 2006-06-04 10:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-06-03 05:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-06-03 08:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-06-04 01:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-03 11:28 am UTC

[info]lukita
2006-06-03 02:07 am UTC (link)
Why is this girl asking a room full of strangers for moron advice? I would have told her to go for it if her god/dess is tellilng her to have sex now with this guy.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2006-06-03 09:55 am UTC

[info]ravenscanary
2006-06-03 02:16 am UTC (link)
I love how halfway through she rushes to cover her ass by saying, "No, I already knew it was wrong, I just wanted to prompt discussion" after everyone and their covenmates told her she was an evil rede-breaking skank.

I really get the feeling she expected a bunch of sympathetic support, which just makes it funnier.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2006-06-03 02:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenscanary, 2006-06-03 03:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-06-03 05:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-06-03 05:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-04 01:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-06-04 10:26 pm UTC

[info]gal_montag
2006-06-03 03:16 am UTC (link)
How come her guilt isn't enough? Sometimes guilt is good and founded and if you feel bad about fucking a dude who isn't single, maybe you shouldn't do it. Seems pretty goddamn simple. Oh and if his girlfriend girlrfiend isn't poly then neither is he. It doesn't work that way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]beandelphiki, 2006-06-03 08:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-06-03 04:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-06-03 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mathilde, 2006-06-03 02:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-04 01:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mathilde, 2006-06-04 01:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2006-06-03 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-06-03 11:20 pm UTC

[info]lotus79
2006-06-03 03:39 am UTC (link)
This is the bit that floored me:

His current girlfriend comes from a wealthy family who could and would provide a financially stable future for his child(ren). THAT is the ONLY reason he stays in the relationship with this woman. He is sacrificing his own happiness and fulfilment for the 15-year future needs of his daughter (university)

He's only using her for her money anyway, so cheating on her too is A-OK! Also, it's for the children.

I hope the girlfriend finds out and kicks his arse out.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pepperlandgirl4, 2006-06-03 03:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delcj, 2006-06-03 04:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pepperlandgirl4, 2006-06-03 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-06-03 08:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2006-06-03 04:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-06-03 05:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lotus79, 2006-06-03 06:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-06-03 03:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-03 06:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittenmommy, 2006-06-03 12:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-04 01:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittenmommy, 2006-06-04 11:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-05 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittenmommy, 2006-06-05 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mrbimble, 2006-06-03 12:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lotus79, 2006-06-03 01:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]andra_dodger, 2006-06-03 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-04 01:20 pm UTC

[info]sorchar
2006-06-03 03:57 am UTC (link)
cumaeansibyl_wins the world.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dark_puck, 2006-06-03 04:29 am UTC
Yes, yes she does. - [info]aerobot, 2006-06-03 08:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]exdee, 2006-06-03 11:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittenmommy, 2006-06-03 12:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2006-06-03 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercutia, 2006-06-04 10:45 pm UTC

[info]slackerbitch
2006-06-03 05:25 am UTC (link)
I just love how she twists the situation in order to try desperately to justify it and make it sound somehow plausible that it's going to be Ethical. "Well, my friend wants to cheat - er, explore his polyamory - on his girlfriend - that he doesn't like all that much - I mean, it's her fault, she's a clingy bitch - but he can't leave because she's rich - which is why he stays - uh, for his kids - being a great dad and all - and all sexuality is the will of the Goddess - so, y'know, the Goddess wants me to hit that - so it's totally okay, right?"

Ethics took one look at this mess and jumped off a cliff.

Also: I had a guy friend who claimed "unfulfilled polyamorous urges" were what made him fuck around behind his girlfriend's back. Sorry, being a narcissistic cheating fuckhole is not the same as being polyamorous. Try again!

(Reply to this)


[info]smo
2006-06-03 05:53 am UTC (link)
Silly girl. She ought to just use the "slip and fall" defense. As in, "I slipped, fell, and landed on his dick! Teehee!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-06-03 08:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-06-03 11:40 am UTC

[info]honorh
2006-06-03 06:30 am UTC (link)
Sad thing is, I've seen Christians use this excuse, albeit less verbosely. "If God hadn't wanted us to get together, He wouldn't have given us such a strong attraction to each other! And he got married against God's will in the first place!"

--yeah, right, whatever.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-06-03 06:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-03 06:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-03 11:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-03 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-06-03 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-04 01:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lycoris, 2006-06-03 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-06-03 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-04 01:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-06-04 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2006-06-04 09:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-06-04 12:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2006-06-05 09:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-04 01:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - ealusaid, 2006-06-07 08:37 am UTC

[info]jetamors
2006-06-03 07:09 am UTC (link)
Nietzsche was a pagan prophet? "God is dead" Nietzsche? O.o

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]v_digitalwytch, 2006-06-03 07:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jenny_atrox, 2006-06-03 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dalassa, 2006-06-04 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-06-03 10:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2006-06-05 04:44 pm UTC

[info]lizzypaul
2006-06-03 07:13 am UTC (link)
OH MY GOD(dess?).

So it's not just christianitysex, Swisscelt wanks everywhere. Where does he find the time? He's got kids, even.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-03 11:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lizzypaul, 2006-06-03 03:56 pm UTC
Bitch please...
[info]adora_spintriae
2006-06-03 08:16 am UTC (link)
I have a friend, we'll call him "B", who is polyamourous but is in a monogamous relationship with a woman. He has tried to talk to her about his poly needs, but every time he does so, she shuts him down and demands complete monogamy from him. He is not happy in the relationship, but stays on account of his children.

Read: He's not "poly", he's just a skanky manslut who can't keep it in his pants but wants a wife to cook dinner for him each night.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Bitch please... - [info]mrbimble, 2006-06-03 12:48 pm UTC
Re: Bitch please... - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-06-03 05:14 pm UTC
Re: Bitch please... - [info]mrbimble, 2006-06-04 12:38 am UTC
Re: Bitch please... - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-06-04 01:02 am UTC
Re: Bitch please... - [info]seiberwing, 2006-06-03 01:24 pm UTC
Re: Bitch please... - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-06-03 01:45 pm UTC
Re: Bitch please... - [info]seiberwing, 2006-06-03 01:57 pm UTC

[info]impendingdoom
2006-06-03 04:13 pm UTC (link)
I am an Ethical Slut

For some reason, this makes me giggle.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-06-04 12:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]impendingdoom, 2006-06-04 11:12 am UTC

[info]funwithrage
2006-06-03 05:05 pm UTC (link)
Fucking hell.


Now, I don't see sleeping with an otherwise-involved guy as *wrong*, exactly. You shouldn't look for a committed monogamous relationship with aforesaid guy, 'cause that's stupid given evidence, but if you don't know the girl in question, you don't owe her anything.


But, for the love of God, don't try and justify it with half-assed theology. You want to fuck him. He's involved with someone, and you want to fuck him regardless. Sack up, admit it, and make a decision without having a consciousness-raising session about it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pepperlandgirl4, 2006-06-03 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-03 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]andra_dodger, 2006-06-03 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-03 09:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]andra_dodger, 2006-06-03 09:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-04 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]andra_dodger, 2006-06-04 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2006-06-04 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-04 02:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2006-06-04 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-04 01:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-04 05:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-06-04 01:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-06-04 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mathilde, 2006-06-04 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-04 02:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mathilde, 2006-06-04 12:15 pm UTC
Personal Ethics and What Not - [info]mariagoner, 2006-06-03 11:48 pm UTC
Re: Personal Ethics and What Not - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-04 12:11 am UTC
Re: Personal Ethics and What Not - [info]mrbimble, 2006-06-04 12:47 am UTC
Re: Personal Ethics and What Not - [info]funwithrage, 2006-06-04 02:28 am UTC
Re: Personal Ethics and What Not - [info]mercutia, 2006-06-04 11:49 pm UTC
Re: Personal Ethics and What Not - [info]mercutia, 2006-06-04 11:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2006-06-04 02:15 am UTC

[info]rimrunner
2006-06-03 05:46 pm UTC (link)
I wondered if this was gonna make it over here.

Personally I can't get over somacandra's contributions. They're gonna need a beach towel to clean up that spooge.

(Reply to this)


[info]rachel1496
2006-06-04 03:36 am UTC (link)
There is a part of me that feels bad for judging, because I have been in the relationship with attached-male friend situation. Like her I felt justified because he didn't really love her, was going to leave her for me, yadda yadda whatever. Mind you, I was also 17 years old and even then, knew that no matter how I justified it, it was still wrong.

Rouge_Priestess, on the other hand, doesn't seem concerned with whether or not it's wrong or will hurt people, just worried that she will face "karmic revenge".

(Reply to this)


[info]mcity
2006-06-04 09:38 pm UTC (link)
How can other people judge us as doing something wrong
Every time, every frickin time I see someone whine about "judging", they don't have a leg to stand on.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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