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ringbark ([info]ringbark) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2006-07-04 08:34:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
1,000 skeletons found in Rome catacombs
It started off harmlessly enough as a piece of reporting in "The Scotsman", a serious newspaper from Scotland: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=916922006 ARCHAELOGISTS exploring one of Rome's oldest catacombs have discovered more than 1,000 skeletons dressed in elegant togas. Experts are thrilled by the find - which dates from about the first century - as it is the first "mass burial" of its kind identified. Mystery surrounds why so many bodies were neatly piled together in the complex network of underground burial chambers, which stretch for miles under the city.
On the face of it, this sounds like a news story, but any newspaper that allows comments to stories is pretty much saying "please wank me!" and so the very first comment launches it.

#1 The skeletons were not Christian. Christianity did not spread to Rome until after the first century.

And we're off. Next off the mark we get

#2 Tell that to St. Peter and St. Paul. Apparently they didn't know they were supposed to wait until after the first centurty (sic) to spread the New Covenant.

Lots of commenters agree with #2 and seem to suggest that #1 has a very fuzzy understanding of history. But was St Paul a Christian?

#4 Paul did not consider himself a Christian, and he would have been horrified to have been considered anything BUT a Jew. Jesus and His followers were all Jews, and the debates were about Judaism itslef (sic), NOT a new religion.

#11 chooses to quote from Acts chapter 26... And Agrippa said to Paul: In a little thou persuadest me to become a Christian. And Paul said: I would to God, that both in a little and in much, not only thou, but also all that hear me, this day, should become such AS I ALSO AM, except these bands.

But #11 adds a disclaimer, which only seems to add another dimension to the wank:

but then again... that's the Catholic version, not the Davinci code version.

And we're off again, this time an argument between the Da Vinci Code version of history, sometimes called an alternate universe, and respected historians (including pagan roman ones like tacitus and ceutonis) according to #7.

By #14 it's getting silly...

#14 You are getting confused between Catholicism and Christianity which are two completely different religions,

At least the next commenter can see where we're headed...

#15 Here we go again with the "Catholics aren't Christians" argument... Yawnn...

We have intelligent discussion of the level we might expect at

#23 there is no proof that Catholism exist before Constantine became King. It's rather ridiculous that you have to slur names to prove your point. It doesn't work. If you are a true intellect you should just state your case. THE DIVCI CODE IS A GREAT BOOK. Let me guess if you had your way you'd burn it.

Of course, she's right! Catholism doesn't exist. As for Catholicism, that's a different matter. My history book doesn't mention a king called Constantine, though there was an emperor with that name. I can't comment about the DIVCI CODE, as I've never heard of it. If it's anything like the DA VINCI CODE, then it probably is a great book. Like so many in the various fandoms, Brown has been accused of plagiarism. I know I'd be a bit cross if I'd written HBHG, but still... Anyway, being a GREAT BOOK isn't the same as being TRUE. As far as I know, LOTR and HP are GREAT BOOKS but they aren't TRUE.

By the time we get to #24, we're back to talking about the original article, but by then it's too late. We're just one step away from h-l-c--st denial with

#27 This is just pure propaganda. Who says they were persecuted? where is the hard evidence that these people were persecuted? And I dont mean quotes from classical texts written by Christians.

I could carry on, but the thread continues in a tl;dr vein...the website seems to draw a line under a discussion with 50 comments, which is probably just as well. Lots of exciting wank that could have been developed further, but very little discussion about the original article. As usual.


(Post a new comment)


[info]waltraute
2006-07-04 10:35 am UTC (link)
I, for one, am just waiting for [info]fpb to find this story and the controversy. But as I'm not a troll, just going to have to wait.

(Reply to this)


[info]brick_me
2006-07-04 10:37 am UTC (link)
Raffaella Giuliani, chief inspector of the Vatican's Pontifical Commission for Sacred Archaeology

lol chrtistian science

(Reply to this)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2006-07-04 11:13 am UTC (link)
Well, the Vatican does support evolution.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-07-04 12:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-07-04 03:47 pm UTC

jenova
2006-07-04 12:38 pm UTC (link)
As Christians and science go, the Vatican's actually pretty good. Most kids in Catholic school learn about the big bang and evolution and stuff (I did) and IME it's usually Baptists and other fundamentalist Protestants who're spearheading the removal of "dangerous" scientific ideas. They're not perfect by a long shot, but the Vatican's astronomers can be pretty neat.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-07-04 12:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-07-04 02:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-07-04 03:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-07-04 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brick_me, 2006-07-04 01:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - jenova, 2006-07-04 01:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brick_me, 2006-07-04 01:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - jenova, 2006-07-04 02:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-07-04 01:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brick_me, 2006-07-04 01:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-07-04 04:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-07-04 04:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-07-04 02:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anne_noonlight, 2006-07-04 02:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-07-04 04:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistal, 2006-07-05 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2006-07-05 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2006-07-04 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-07-04 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-07-05 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ringbark, 2006-07-05 10:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-07-06 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2006-07-05 04:12 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-07-04 11:30 am UTC (link)
Somebody brought up Flavius Joseph! Score!
I like that guy. Very good chronicler.

Although, could someone round up all these 'Christianity and Catholicism are different religions' folks so I can slap them?

Um. Yeah. I shouldn'thave even read that probably. I think I'm developing a twitch.

[marymac.livejournal.com]

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-07-04 11:56 am UTC (link)
The Ancient Romans - they haunt me even when I'm trying to relax...

--Athersgeo on LJ who's just taking a break from reading up about...Roman burials *sigh*

(Reply to this)


[info]slavekitty
2006-07-04 12:03 pm UTC (link)
#27 This is just pure propaganda. Who says they were persecuted? where is the hard evidence that these people were persecuted? And I dont mean quotes from classical texts written by Christians.

There's a joke about lions and Christian kitty chow in there somewhere, I'm just not sure how to word it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]altoidsaddict
2006-07-04 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Daniel: The Other White Meat.

*runs*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]amyheartssiroc, 2006-07-04 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-07-05 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magic_lilybean, 2006-07-07 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drhenryjekyll, 2006-07-07 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magic_lilybean, 2006-07-07 01:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-07-07 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ringbark, 2006-07-07 05:33 am UTC

[info]fourthage
2006-07-04 12:39 pm UTC (link)
#27 This is just pure propaganda. Who says they were persecuted? where is the hard evidence that these people were persecuted? And I dont mean quotes from classical texts written by Christians.

Dude, the Romans persecuted everybody who didn't toe the line. The Christians were nothing special in that regard. All you gotta do is pick up a history book.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]onaga
2006-07-04 02:30 pm UTC (link)
Too true. I love the Romans, but they killed a ton of people for being uppity. Jews, Christians, Gauls, Hibernians, Britons, Celts, etc. etc. The Roman Empire was good at two things: infrastructure and efficient killing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jetwolf, 2006-07-04 02:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]staroverthebay, 2006-07-04 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]delarina, 2006-07-04 04:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]onaga, 2006-07-04 04:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jetwolf, 2006-07-04 06:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hellespont, 2006-07-04 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2006-07-04 05:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fourthage, 2006-07-05 12:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]onaga, 2006-07-05 02:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drhenryjekyll, 2006-07-07 01:22 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-07-04 06:14 pm UTC (link)
Word. But at the same time, leave it to the Christians to turn themselves into the biggest effing martyrs ever persecuted by Roman hands. Kinda like here in the US, where the Christians are being OMG!OPPRESSED because stores and work places use the phrase "Happy Holidays." How ever do they manage to go on? /sarcasm

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-07-06 05:09 am UTC

jenova
2006-07-04 12:40 pm UTC (link)
... Yeah.

I don't exactly blame the DaVinci code for all this stupidity... except well, I kind of do. I don't remember people being quite this obnoxious about Secret Vatican Conspiracy Theories before that, or maybe they were all like Jack Chick and no one took them seriously.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-07-04 12:47 pm UTC

[info]notjo
2006-07-04 12:45 pm UTC (link)
And now asleep am I that my first thought was "Burials in Rome of cats? Dude! And they were in togas!"

Yeah.

Anyway, should we point out that all their quotes are coming from translations and thus may be inaccurate?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - jenova, 2006-07-04 01:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-07-04 02:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - jenova, 2006-07-04 02:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-07-04 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-07-04 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hellespont, 2006-07-04 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]magic_lilybean, 2006-07-07 12:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-07-07 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magic_lilybean, 2006-07-07 12:26 pm UTC

[info]isntitironic
2006-07-04 02:35 pm UTC (link)
I just want to say that skeletons in togas are made of awesome, thank you.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-07-04 02:57 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-07-04 03:46 pm UTC (link)
Dude, what? Seutonius was a Christian author?

And last I checked, The DaVinci Code was nothing like a great book. Good book, maybe (haven't read it) but not great. It's too early for the book to be called "great" -- it needs time to grow in stature (though *I* personally don't like Dan Brown one bit, but that's my personal twist)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wanktastic, 2006-07-04 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ringbark, 2006-07-04 04:16 pm UTC
Wordy McWord - (Anonymous), 2006-07-04 07:04 pm UTC
Re: Wordy McWord - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-07-04 07:17 pm UTC
Re: Wordy McWord - [info]wankprophet, 2006-07-04 08:00 pm UTC
google is my friend... - (Anonymous), 2006-07-04 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2006-07-04 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2006-07-05 05:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jocondite, 2006-07-06 02:18 pm UTC
SPOILERS in this comment - [info]ravenclaw_devi, 2006-07-07 01:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-07-04 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2006-07-05 03:54 am UTC

[info]exdee
2006-07-04 04:04 pm UTC (link)
that's the Catholic version, not the Davinci code version.

Wait, did someone SERIOUSLY bring up DVC in a dicussion trying to pass itself off as both academic and theological?

Yeah, that's my brain breaking.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ringbark, 2006-07-04 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]exdee, 2006-07-04 04:19 pm UTC

[info]jim_smith
2006-07-04 05:03 pm UTC (link)
#27 This is just pure propaganda. Who says they were persecuted? where is the hard evidence that these people were persecuted? And I dont mean quotes from classical texts written by Christians.

You know, this guy's gotta point.

Who says the Romans even had an empire to begin with? Where's the evidence? And I don't anything the Romans actually did.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-07-04 05:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-07-04 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jim_smith, 2006-07-04 07:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-07-04 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oneiropolos, 2006-07-04 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-07-05 02:43 am UTC

[info]moriath
2006-07-04 05:14 pm UTC (link)
What's with our wanks happening in cycles? We've got to Christianity-wanks, and before that was Nipplegate 2006...

I'm too lazy to figure out if we had wank cycles before that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-07-04 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-07-04 07:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lessis, 2006-07-05 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]life_on_mars, 2006-07-05 06:00 am UTC
Spoiler in this comment
[info]narcissam
2006-07-04 06:43 pm UTC (link)
The DIVCI Code is a really exciting book. After 247 pages, they finally crack the code: 500 4 100 1.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Spoiler in this comment - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-07-04 07:23 pm UTC
Re: Spoiler in this comment - [info]wankprophet, 2006-07-04 07:48 pm UTC
Re: Spoiler in this comment - [info]brown_betty, 2006-07-04 10:51 pm UTC
Re: Spoiler in this comment - [info]oneiropolos, 2006-07-04 11:21 pm UTC
Re: Spoiler in this comment - [info]onaga, 2006-07-05 07:54 pm UTC

[info]honorh
2006-07-04 07:04 pm UTC (link)
Gyads. Okay, first, while The Da Vinci Code might be a fine work of fiction, it's a piss-poor piece of historical scholarship. Even secular historians can agree on that.

Secondly, the Catholics vs. Christians thing is so very tired. I wish people who didn't know anything about the issues involved would just SHUT UP!

Thirdly, I'm now staying far, far away from this whole thing.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-07-04 07:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-07-04 08:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-07-04 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ayezur, 2006-07-04 09:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ironymaiden, 2006-07-04 10:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ayezur, 2006-07-04 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]harrylovesron, 2006-07-04 11:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-07-05 02:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-07-05 02:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-07-05 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-07-04 11:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jocondite, 2006-07-06 02:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rachel_pi, 2006-07-04 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2006-07-05 03:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-07-05 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]magic_lilybean, 2006-07-07 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jocondite, 2006-07-06 02:22 pm UTC

[info]rachel_pi
2006-07-04 08:12 pm UTC (link)
there is no proof that Catholism exist before Constantine became King.

Yeah, I mean everyone knows that Constantine, ruler of the Roman...kingdom, was the person who wrote the Bible and invented Christianity especially for the Council of Nicea. No Christian belief existed before that. Not at all.

*rolls eyes*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-07-04 10:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-07-04 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nicolae, 2006-07-05 03:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2006-07-05 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2006-07-05 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2006-07-05 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2006-07-05 10:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rachel_pi, 2006-07-06 02:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drhenryjekyll, 2006-07-07 01:29 am UTC

[info]kelschuu
2006-07-05 01:26 am UTC (link)
[...] Catholism [...]

... "Hello, my name is Peter, and I'm a Cathoholic." ? */pot-shot*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-07-05 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelschuu, 2006-07-05 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-07-05 01:38 am UTC

[info]chaimonkey
2006-07-05 05:30 am UTC (link)
Let me guess if you had your way you'd burn it.

I would burn Da Vinci Code. Why? Because it sucked. Talk about published Suefic.

(Reply to this)


[info]tiye
2006-07-05 05:51 am UTC (link)
I just want an icon that says "The skeletons were not Christian."

(Reply to this)


[info]life_on_mars
2006-07-05 05:57 am UTC (link)
My history book doesn't mention a king called Constantine, though there was an emperor with that name.

Perhaps the OP is mixing up Constantine the Great with ex-King Constantine of Greece? It's an easy mistake to make; they're only 1700 years apart.

I'd have no problem believing that Catholicism didn't exist before King Constantine, that the whole of history was a bad dream and Martin Luther was in the shower the whole time ...

(Reply to this)


 
   
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