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formerly "garochi" (but I'm okay now!) ([info]jar) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2006-08-27 19:06:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:pissed off

transsexual wank (not as fun as that makes it sound)
[info]feminist_fatale on LJ just seems to be full of wank. First it was asking "why slash, is it harmful, is it feminist" (blah blah blah it'sbeendonemoveON), and now a discussion started by [info]estu_l_aftadai (the [incredibly annoying] mod?) about transsexuals turns wanky.

[info]estu_l_aftadai goes on to heights of offensive idiocy by explaining why they won't call MTF transsexuals "she" or "her" in the comments.

Almost all comments are a trainwreckish goldmine of idiocy, my personal favourite bit being this comment by [info]lovecrafty: What does it hurt you to play along?

How far exactly are you supposed to play along?

Let's say I'm sitting at a bar and an attractive transsexual approaches me and asks me to by zir a drink. Now, if an attractive women did this, I'd probably say "Sure." and buy her a drink, because, you know, maybe I'll get laid. And then maybe I'll fall in love, and we'll get married and have babies, and life will be peachy keen. True, that's probably not what will happen, but the possibility it could is why I would by the drink.

But I don't want to have sex with a transsexual, and I certainly don't want to fall in love with and get married to one, so obviously I should react differently to the offer to buy "her" a drink.

But then, I'm making a distinction between a transsexual woman and a real woman. I'm not "playing along".


Oh, WTF. WTF, indeed.

[ETA]: After the transsexual post, spaze asks for it "Do We as Humans have an inaliable right to define who we are as individuals?", even though they should really just let it go.

Along with rehashes of earlier opinions by [info]lovecrafty (for the love of god just shut up), [info]spaze also gets this serious and polite reply from [info]estu_l_aftadai (and by serious and polite, I mean stupid and stupid).




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(Post a new comment)


[info]spleen
2006-08-27 09:26 am UTC (link)
WHAT.

Just... what.

(Reply to this)


[info]elektra3
2006-08-27 09:41 am UTC (link)
Let's say I'm sitting at a bar and an attractive transsexual approaches me and asks me to by zir a drink. Now, if an attractive women did this, I'd probably say "Sure." and buy her a drink, because, you know, maybe I'll get laid. And then maybe I'll fall in love, and we'll get married and have babies, and life will be peachy keen. True, that's probably not what will happen, but the possibility it could is why I would by the drink.

...Wow. Someone's been planning ahead.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 10:12 am UTC
estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 10:19 am UTC
Re: estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - [info]jar, 2006-08-27 10:25 am UTC
Re: estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:15 pm UTC
Re: estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - [info]aristaea, 2006-08-27 11:11 am UTC
Re: estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - [info]notjo, 2006-08-27 02:49 pm UTC
Re: estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 04:55 pm UTC
Re: estu_l_aftadai's a guy? - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-08-27 12:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenclaw_devi, 2006-08-27 02:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-08-27 03:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2006-08-27 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-08-30 12:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lemone, 2006-08-27 06:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_arel, 2006-08-27 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]benighted, 2006-08-27 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bangoskank, 2006-08-28 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-08-30 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2006-08-30 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 07:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-08-29 04:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-08-27 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-07 10:16 pm UTC

[info]zyna_kat
2006-08-27 11:55 am UTC (link)
Wow, estu_l_aftadai must have a special superpower that allows him to detect chromosomes. I draw the line at chromosomes. XX = woman, XY = man.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]vengeance_bean, 2006-08-27 12:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2006-08-27 12:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vengeance_bean, 2006-08-27 01:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aristaea, 2006-08-27 02:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]april_hurst, 2006-08-27 03:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 05:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-08-27 12:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]breecita, 2006-08-27 02:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-08-28 12:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2006-08-27 03:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2006-08-27 03:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 07:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2006-08-27 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2006-08-27 11:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2006-08-27 09:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 10:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2006-08-27 05:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zyna_kat, 2006-08-27 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_arel, 2006-08-27 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_arel, 2006-08-27 07:51 pm UTC

[info]aerobot
2006-08-27 12:54 pm UTC (link)
No, I'm all for someone's right to self-identify as whatever they want; but I don't like it when they try to make others identify them as such. This isn't about self-identity but how others identify the person.

Uh, society is full of different groups that people self-identify as, such as nationality, political affiliation, religion, idealology, etc, and people have fought and DIED over those - including the right for those groups to exist. Not to mention that civil rights movements are based on making society identify them as equals. I think all those people wouldn't appreciate it if you refused to acknowledge their self-identification.

(Reply to this)


[info]freezer
2006-08-27 12:54 pm UTC (link)
estu_l_aftadai: To me, it seems as though a lot of transsexuals take themselves too seriously.

Imagine that...

I would think that if one spends hundreds of thousands of dollars and undergoes months (years?) of psych evaluations and counselling in preparation for having major parts of their anatomy chopped out and reshaped and generally settling in for a life-long hormonal fist-fight with Mother Nature, one would HAVE to take themselves seriously.

Or maybe I'm just interrogating the stupid from the wrong perspective?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cat_mcdougall, 2006-08-27 01:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - rachelthedemon, 2006-08-27 02:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-08-27 02:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sashenka, 2006-08-27 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2006-08-27 05:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]altoidsaddict, 2006-08-28 12:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2006-08-28 03:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-08-29 04:26 am UTC

[info]kadath
2006-08-27 02:10 pm UTC (link)
lovecrafty makes me sad that I share a fandom with him. :*(

Also, gender essentialism FTW. *flips off feminist_fatale*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-08-27 02:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2006-08-27 02:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]innsmouth_eyes, 2006-08-27 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2006-08-27 09:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]innsmouth_eyes, 2006-08-27 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]memorycharm, 2006-08-28 08:22 am UTC

[info]mcity
2006-08-27 02:12 pm UTC (link)
"Zir" is even more annoying than "hir" and "shi".

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 02:49 pm UTC (link)
If I, as a guy, wanted to be recognized as a woman, sure I might dress differently, take hormones, get a sex change and so forth, but I wouldn't take it personally when some people rejected this and still thought of me and referred to me as a man...

It's all very well for you to say this now, as a guy, but the fact is you *don't* want to be recognized as a woman, so STFU, please. You haven't experienced life as a transsexual, so how would you know that you would think this way if you had?

It bugs me when people come up with stuff like this: "I'm white, but if I was asian I wouldn't be offended by racial profiling at all, seeing as so many of my would-be race are evol terrorists!" or "As a straight man, I think that if I were gay, I would understand that marriage was intended for straight couples only". Although these things would only be tiny part of who you were, they would nevertheless have an effect on the way you see things.

Now, as a transsexual, I would be offended if a person repeatedly chose to ignore this. If someone who had known me all my life occasionally slipped up, I wouldn't care, but a conscious decision to refuse to reject my identity is a different matter altogether. Beliefs aside, it's just common courtesy.

- Mouse without an LJ

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-08-27 02:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 07:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-08-28 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2006-08-28 03:56 am UTC

[info]gal_montag
2006-08-27 04:25 pm UTC (link)
WTF, [info]estu_l_aftadai? Why would be be such an affront? Why is it okay for you to be all self-rightious and up in the faces of people who have done nothing to you but not okay for them to get pissed off when you do it?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2006-08-27 04:56 pm UTC

[info]neidhart
2006-08-27 04:32 pm UTC (link)
If a person looks feminine, dresses feminine, acts feminine, I'm not going to quibble over a little matter of hardware. :D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zyna_kat, 2006-08-27 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 10:27 pm UTC

[info]hallidae
2006-08-27 04:35 pm UTC (link)
First the racist wank, now this... Man, the more I hear [info]lovecrafty talk, the more I want to take a bat and beat him like a pinata.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2006-08-27 05:04 pm UTC

[info]wankaholic
2006-08-27 05:03 pm UTC (link)
All those in favour of declaring [info]lovecrafty an asshat, raise your hand.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]polemic, 2006-08-27 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]okalintu, 2006-08-27 05:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fevered_ego, 2006-08-27 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-08-27 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sugartits, 2006-08-27 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-08-27 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_arel, 2006-08-27 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ayezur, 2006-08-27 08:41 pm UTC
WooooooOOOOOH! - [info]freezer, 2006-08-28 04:18 am UTC
Re: WooooooOOOOOH! - [info]wankismyfandom, 2006-08-28 06:43 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]annabelle_lee, 2006-08-28 01:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dark_puck, 2006-08-28 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2006-08-28 02:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2006-08-28 04:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2006-08-28 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-08-28 12:26 pm UTC

[info]polemic
2006-08-27 05:23 pm UTC (link)
How I love this post, let me count the ways
1. Transtupidity and ignorance
2. Implication that buying a drink for someone means entitlement of sexual favors.
3. Insistence on taking being hit on by someone you're not attracted to as something more than a compliment
4. Asshats arguing with each other over the worst sides of an issue
5. Lamer linking to the wank report

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]redcoast, 2006-08-27 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-08-28 06:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stromatolite, 2006-08-28 06:31 pm UTC

[info]fevered_ego
2006-08-27 05:25 pm UTC (link)
Oh, darn. And we were really counting on his support, too.

Seriously, I even wrote it down. "GET CREEPY INTERNET YUTZ TO VALIDATE MY EXISTENCE. BUY COOKIES."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nicolae, 2006-08-28 02:09 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 05:33 pm UTC (link)
The lovely taco costume picture reminds me of the South Park episode where one of the kid's dads gets an operation to turn himself into a dolphin and basically says that.
It was extremely offensive and the only episode I've seen that has actually pissed me off. But I guess that's what those guys are in the business of doing.
Blah. That's all I got to say.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 07:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - iwanttobeasleep, 2006-08-27 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-28 02:49 am UTC
(no subject) - iwanttobeasleep, 2006-08-28 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lemone, 2006-08-28 10:01 pm UTC

redwarrior
2006-08-27 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I was actually thinking about an analogy to this "bio-gender=real gender" ideology.

Say that your definition of "hamburger" was "100% beef patty on a bun". However, there are different kinds of hamburgers on the market- turkey burgers, veggie burgers, etc. So you really REALLY want a hamburger, and you go to a friend's house (who happens to be a strict vegetarian, but you don't know that) and ask him/her to grill up a burger. So s/he get s frozen patty out of the fridge, puts it in a pan, fries it, and puts it on a bun for you. Looks like a normal brown beef burger. You put condiments on it and take a bite. Tastes like a normal beef burger, but noticeably leaner. You finish it off, and the person told you that you just ate a veggie burger since s/he's vegetarian.

Since your definition of "hamburger" is different from the vegetarian's, you bitch at him/her for "decieving" you for serving you anything other than 100% beef. "But it IS a hamburger," says your vegetarian friend. "You put it on a bun with ketchup, ate it, and liked it, didn't you?"

"...But it's not beef."

(In other words: a semantical misunderstanding between people with two different viewpoints.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-27 07:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2006-08-28 04:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2006-08-27 09:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-08-27 10:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-08-28 12:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-08-29 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-06 08:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]enoh, 2006-08-29 01:46 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 07:01 pm UTC (link)
Fuck you, I'm a taco!

-jennybunny

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 08:07 pm UTC (link)
Just great...
Well, at least they are against changing the textbooks that proclaim our planet is actually named 'Ashlica'.
But that's if that was the only thing that stood between them and world domination.

Laughing Hyena

(Reply to this)


[info]autumnyte
2006-08-27 08:17 pm UTC (link)
What's up with the increased amount of transphobic wank lately?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

icon - [info]polemic, 2006-08-27 08:44 pm UTC
Re: icon - [info]autumnyte, 2006-08-27 08:48 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 08:38 pm UTC (link)
Is the "stupid and stupid" reply supposed to be blank, or is it a picture that my computer refuses to let me see?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - jenova, 2006-08-27 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadlettero, 2006-08-27 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-27 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2006-08-29 02:48 am UTC

[info]velvet_mace
2006-08-27 09:24 pm UTC (link)
Wow, another person defending to the death his right to be a complete jerk to strangers.

But I don't want to have sex with a transsexual, and I certainly don't want to fall in love with and get married to one, so obviously I should react differently to the offer to buy "her" a drink.

But then, I'm making a distinction between a transsexual woman and a real woman. I'm not "playing along".


I love how this guy makes no distinction between treating a person with respect and dignity and having sex and marrying the person. Honestly, if I have to offer him a ring in order for him to treat me politely, I think I'd rather not be around him at all.

(Reply to this)


[info]pesky
2006-08-27 09:30 pm UTC (link)
While I don't have a problem with transsexuality

Wow, third time this week I've heard a variant of that phrase. Again, fuck you and your benevolent gesture.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2006-08-27 09:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pesky, 2006-08-27 11:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]papervolcano, 2006-08-27 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2006-08-28 12:11 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-28 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-08-28 03:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smit, 2006-08-28 07:34 am UTC

[info]youcuntface
2006-08-27 10:02 pm UTC (link)
I hope he never finds himself in a bar where one celebratory patron shouts, "A round for everyone, on me!" He'd probably think it was a precursor to a bar-wide gang bang.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]delarina, 2006-08-27 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2006-08-28 03:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]amxjm, 2006-08-28 05:46 am UTC

[info]adora_spintriae
2006-08-28 12:09 am UTC (link)
darkphoenixrsn:Is it so difficult to treat transsexuals with respect? It's not respectful to refer to transwomen as men or transmen as women. Just because you can't understand transsexuality doesn't mean you have a right to inflict emotional pain on other people.

estu_k_aftadai: Au contraire, it's not respectful for transsexuals to expect me to conform to their ideas of gender. If they feel emotional pain because I don't have the same idea of gender as they do, that is not my fault.


...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-28 12:20 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-28 03:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankismyfandom, 2006-08-28 06:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]caoilte, 2006-08-28 12:38 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-28 01:53 am UTC (link)
What the fuck is so fucking hard about treating a person like a person.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hobbitsexual, 2006-08-28 03:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raane, 2006-08-28 04:02 am UTC


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