Parenthood, Like Homosexuality, Is Not A Choice
Or so sayeth a wanker in Poor Skills, anyway, LJ's dominant source for incredibly tedious whiny advice posts, stupid food spoilage questions, and the occasional, very rare speck of useful information.

This is not one of these.

It starts when someone posts the following, which has since been deleted:

Poor Skills & Children
Let me preface this post by saying that it will probably offend someone. However, it's really not my intention to offend anyone, I'd just like some honest answers/opinions.

Okay, so we talk about poor skills in this community, ways to cook cheaply, rent cheaply, repair credit and old cars, etc. However, never in this community have I seen much reference to the one poor skill that can save you more money than any other, which is choosing to not have children or at least to not have them until you're financially stable enough to do so (kids are REALLY expensive). I've seen online articles saying that children cost roughly $100,000 (not sure if that figure is accurate) to raise. That's PER child. So why, if you can't even support yourself financially are you bringing a child into this world? I understand that s*** happens and so do accidents, but with modern birth control, there is absolutely no reason for accidents to happen (unless of course you're part of the 0.03% that had The Pill fail). Answers/opinions? Again, I'm not a troll, nor am I looking to start a huge debate.

(Taken from the mouse on Wank Report)

Then, tonight, Danaseilhan makes this statement: No poor-bashing! And btw, if you guys don't cut it out, I'm making my own comm where I can BAN j00. Also, hear my tragic tale.

To which I thought, meh, because I sort of have a midterm to write here, but then I noticed the ~250 comments and decided to investigate.

OMG SO OFFENDED bitching spawned from bad wording and some people quick to up-hackle? You don't say.

Random flaming disguised as civil discourse? You bet.

My fav, though? Apparently, parenthood, like homosexuality, is not a choice omg.

That's as far as I got before realising I reeeeally needed to back away and go do my homework. However, I do encourage you all to enjoy.

(And yes, the childfree are mightily in abundance, as are their many detractors. There's no sense to link because, really. Just click randomly and you'll get a face full of their spooge. Salty.)

ETA: Danaseilhan has gone and made her comm.

ETA2: Noooo! Bahleeted! Original mouse saved the text of the comm advert post, but does anyone have stuff from the main spooge post?

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

wrongly_amused
2006-10-19 05:33 am UTC (link)

I have an idea. If you (you in general) can't afford BC, can't get to a clinic, etc, how about abstaining from vaginal intercourse? There's always anal sex, oral sex, mutual masturbation, and so on so to enjoy sex without getting pregnant.

THE POINT

kristy2078's head

For the God's sakes, could she have missed the broad side of the barn any more? The point is that people shouldn't have to sacrifice basic sexual rights because our clusterfuck of a welfare system doesn't want to provide proper education and contraceptive oppurtunities. How the fuck can you sit there and whine about how having kids is ALWAYS a choice, yet the people who are most powerfully affected by this decision are the ones who *don't* have access to the means to take care of it? They keep shoving the burden of this dilemma down the throats of impoverished families everywhere as though they somehow have the power to change it. What reality do these people live in? Why is the fault always on the poor and not the political system that is cutting off their options?

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	rachelthedemon 2006-10-19 05:38 am UTC (link)
	Didn't you know? Being poor is a choice, too! /sarcasm (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mmanurere 2006-10-19 06:45 am UTC (link)
	It's depressing that one has to indicate sarcasm with that statement... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	luna_hoshino 2006-10-19 08:06 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, I learned the hard way that if you don't make it very clear you're being sarcastic about that sort of thing, people will attempt to lynch you for it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mmanurere 2006-10-19 04:01 pm UTC (link)
	Having heard people make statements like that in all seriousness? I'll believe it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rachelmap 2006-10-19 10:34 am UTC (link)
	Srsly. I don't know how often I've seen people with little of no health insurance being told: "Go get a better job," by some ignorant asswipe. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	amyheartssiroc 2006-10-19 02:29 pm UTC (link)
	Of course it's a choice! After all, if you don't prostitute yourself, you haven't taken advantage of all your opportunities, and being poor is your own fault! Didn't we learn anything from the last poor_skills wank? [/sarcasm, just in case] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	luna_hoshino 2006-10-19 07:39 am UTC (link)
	We have basic sexual rights? Then why aren't I getting any, dammit? This must be remedied at once. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	thecheese 2006-10-20 03:09 am UTC (link)
	Which amendment is it that covers those "basic sexual rights"? I must have been out that day in constitutional law class? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	luna_hoshino 2006-10-20 04:53 am UTC (link)
	Why, Amendment 69 of course! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	thecheese 2006-10-20 01:36 pm UTC (link)
	::Snort:: Good one! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	aerobot 2006-10-19 08:07 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, so, basically the poor aren't allowed to have sex, or kids. Wow, yeah, it's not like they're PEOPLE or anything. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ravenclaw_devi 2006-10-22 12:11 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah. Not to mention that some people only end up in poverty (through whatever circumstances) after having kids. I guess they're expected to either a) invent a time machine so that they can jump back in time to change their reproductive decisions b) dash the heads of their already existing children against rocks c) leave said children on church steps. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ecchaniz0r 2006-10-19 09:47 am UTC (link)
	A million times fuckin' WORD. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	scarah2 2006-10-19 05:45 pm UTC (link)
	I am fortunate to live in the reality that has Planned Parenthood in it. Everyone does have the means. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	oar 2006-10-19 06:02 pm UTC (link)
	That's assuming that there's a Planned Parenthood within a reasonable distance and that one has some means of getting to it. Not always the case, unfortunately. And in some cases, the problem isn't so much lack of access as lack of education. Which is a whole different can of worms. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	scarah2 2006-10-19 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	Well, where I live it's in bus distance of everyone, and the ads for free birth control are on the bus. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mindset 2006-10-19 06:16 pm UTC (link)
	So, it's not reality, but merely your neighborhood of reality? ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	antigone 2006-10-19 06:16 pm UTC (link)
	Okay.... so what if poor people WANT a child? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	scarah2 2006-10-19 06:18 pm UTC (link)
	What if they want a boat, or a Rolex? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	antigone 2006-10-19 06:59 pm UTC (link)
	Because that's the same. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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scarah2, 2006-10-19 07:01 pm UTC

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altoidsaddict, 2006-10-19 07:40 pm UTC

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altoidsaddict, 2006-10-19 07:48 pm UTC

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chrome327, 2006-10-21 09:36 pm UTC

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altoidsaddict, 2006-10-19 07:53 pm UTC

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altoidsaddict, 2006-10-19 08:58 pm UTC

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scarah2, 2006-10-19 09:11 pm UTC

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antigone, 2006-10-19 08:43 pm UTC

lizzypaul
2006-10-19 08:04 pm UTC (link)

Oh. How nice for you. When I was in high school, our PP was two hours away, with no bus service. Also, no ads, and no sex-ed, so we pretty much had to learn from the internets where to go if we wanted BC. And that's in fucking California. I don't know what the poor folks in South Dakota do (where there is one PP for the entire state).

Your reality is not my reality, kthnxbi.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	scarah2 2006-10-19 08:10 pm UTC (link)
	Admittedly that is less than ideal, and I was speaking only for my own community. I keep sending money to PP and voting, so I'm doing what I can. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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altoidsaddict, 2006-10-19 08:56 pm UTC

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scarah2, 2006-10-19 09:04 pm UTC

wrongly_amused
2006-10-20 01:53 am UTC (link)

That's good that you have close access to it, but unfortunately, your situation is not representative of the national whole. There are far too many places where decent access to places like Planned Parenthood and related projects are being shut down through loophole legislation or improper funding. That's without getting into the whole debacle with certain states passing laws allowing pharmacists and doctors to deny customers (usually women, of course) access to emergency contraception and its ilk. Or the poor standard of sexual education that exists in major areas of the U.S.

Having to reconsider the advantage of basic biological and psychological desires isn't a choice people should have to make. Is it fair to say somebody should consider carefully their financial position before planning a pregnancy? Sure. But declaring across the border that people in poverty should be stripped of basic human rights isn't.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

chibicurmudgeon
2006-10-20 05:10 am UTC (link)

Okay, I completely realise and agree with you that education and contraception should be improved so that nobody has to abstain from anything and I wholeheartedly believe that parenthood should be subsidized so that anyone and everyone can afford a child. And that birth control should be free and perfected so that if one doesn't want a child, one never has to worry about creating one.

But.

Until then.

You can't tell me it doesn't make sense to abstain from vaginal sex. In this shitty situation, it is the smartest thing to do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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