Parenthood, Like Homosexuality, Is Not A Choice
Or so sayeth a wanker in Poor Skills, anyway, LJ's dominant source for incredibly tedious whiny advice posts, stupid food spoilage questions, and the occasional, very rare speck of useful information.

This is not one of these.

It starts when someone posts the following, which has since been deleted:

Poor Skills & Children
Let me preface this post by saying that it will probably offend someone. However, it's really not my intention to offend anyone, I'd just like some honest answers/opinions.

Okay, so we talk about poor skills in this community, ways to cook cheaply, rent cheaply, repair credit and old cars, etc. However, never in this community have I seen much reference to the one poor skill that can save you more money than any other, which is choosing to not have children or at least to not have them until you're financially stable enough to do so (kids are REALLY expensive). I've seen online articles saying that children cost roughly $100,000 (not sure if that figure is accurate) to raise. That's PER child. So why, if you can't even support yourself financially are you bringing a child into this world? I understand that s*** happens and so do accidents, but with modern birth control, there is absolutely no reason for accidents to happen (unless of course you're part of the 0.03% that had The Pill fail). Answers/opinions? Again, I'm not a troll, nor am I looking to start a huge debate.

(Taken from the mouse on Wank Report)

Then, tonight, Danaseilhan makes this statement: No poor-bashing! And btw, if you guys don't cut it out, I'm making my own comm where I can BAN j00. Also, hear my tragic tale.

To which I thought, meh, because I sort of have a midterm to write here, but then I noticed the ~250 comments and decided to investigate.

OMG SO OFFENDED bitching spawned from bad wording and some people quick to up-hackle? You don't say.

Random flaming disguised as civil discourse? You bet.

My fav, though? Apparently, parenthood, like homosexuality, is not a choice omg.

That's as far as I got before realising I reeeeally needed to back away and go do my homework. However, I do encourage you all to enjoy.

(And yes, the childfree are mightily in abundance, as are their many detractors. There's no sense to link because, really. Just click randomly and you'll get a face full of their spooge. Salty.)

ETA: Danaseilhan has gone and made her comm.

ETA2: Noooo! Bahleeted! Original mouse saved the text of the comm advert post, but does anyone have stuff from the main spooge post?

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ladybirdsleeps
2006-10-20 02:29 am UTC (link)

The strong reaction is due to the stupidity of the statement.

I wouldn't call someone who makes minimum wage, only makes rent by having roommates, survives on cheap store-brand food, and can't afford to go to the doctor anything but poor. But that person could also have $15 to spare each month to spend on things to make their lives a little more enjoyable, and choose to spend it on internet access.

Saying that people aren't poor because they own a computer and can get on the internet is offensive. It's reminiscent of the attitude that poor people's only priority should be to save every last penny they can in order to make themselves not poor, at the cost of their quality of life. It's dehumanizing.

Also, what's within our means to possess is dependent on our society. Would you call an African subsistence farmer who can barely feed his family not-poor because he owns a little land, whereas many American poor can't?

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	semirecluse 2006-10-20 06:46 am UTC (link)
	It's reminiscent of the attitude that poor people's only priority should be to save every last penny they can in order to make themselves not poor, at the cost of their quality of life. I hadn't considered the validity of that assumption before. Thanks for taking the time to explain your point. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ladybirdsleeps
2006-10-21 10:29 pm UTC (link)

It's an offensive assumption, but it's common. It's even more offensive when it comes from someone who's financially privileged, and has no idea what it's like to live on a very limited budget.

Pointing to things like computers and televisions as either reasons that a person isn't poor ("you're not poor if you can afford unnecessary stuff"), reasons that a person is poor ("you wouldn't be poor if you didn't spend your money on unnecessary stuff"). or reasons that a person doesn't deserve assistance aimed at the poor ("you don't deserve my tax dollars paying for your dinner until you pawn your unnecessary stuff") -

They're all ways that privileged people blame the poor. You're going to touch a nerve if you echo those attitudes.

Plus, as has already been mentioned, you have no idea what it's like to be poor. That's not really your fault. You're privileged, your aware of it, and you're trying to learn. *clap clap*

You can get computers for pretty cheap these days. Poor people can save up, buy a cheap computer, and then keep it far longer than people with more money would. Selling it would only bring in a few bucks; it won't make a damn difference in the long run, and those few bucks would come at the cost of cheap entertainment (should poor people just stare at the walls?), keeping in touch with family and friends, your kids' education, etc.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2006-10-20 01:58 pm UTC (link)

Thank you for putting it so eloquently. <333

Mind, I also think the strong reaction comes because someone saying something like that (on the internet, proving they are at least not worse off than whoever they claim can't be poor), is because it sounds very much like a snotty, spoilt, sheltered, rich kid, who has never known what it's like to constantly worry about money, telling people who do know what that's like, that they're really well-off and have nothing to complain about.

If you're poor in a development country, you can tell me that I'm well-off and lucky. Snotty rich kids however? Not so much.

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	puipui 2006-10-20 11:39 pm UTC (link)
	it sounds very much like a snotty, spoilt, sheltered, rich kid, who has never known what it's like to constantly worry about money, telling people who do know what that's like, that they're really well-off and have nothing to complain about YES. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	semirecluse 2006-10-21 08:17 am UTC (link)
	it sounds very much like a snotty, spoilt, sheltered, rich kid, who has never known what it's like to constantly worry about money, telling people who do know what that's like, that they're really well-off and have nothing to complain about Ah ha. Well, that's all you had to say. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	puipui 2006-10-21 08:31 am UTC (link)
	And yet, somehow, you inspired so many of us to say so much more. Go you! (Reply to this)(Parent)

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