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seiberwing ([info]seiberwing) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-01-05 00:11:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
This is one of the not-fun wanks.
I'm going to quote from Comcast's newspage to give a summary of what's going on here, in an attempt to stay impartial.


6 hours ago

CHICAGO - In a case fraught with ethical questions, the parents of a severely mentally and physically disabled child have stunted her growth to keep their little "pillow angel" a manageable and more portable size.

The bedridden 9-year-old girl had her uterus and breast tissue removed at a Seattle hospital and received large doses of hormones to halt her growth. She is now 4-foot-5; her parents say she would otherwise probably reach a normal 5-foot-6.

The case has captured attention nationwide and abroad via the Internet, with some decrying the parents' actions as perverse and akin to eugenics. Some ethicists question the parents' claim that the drastic treatment will benefit their daughter and allow them to continue caring for her at home.

University of Pennsylvania ethicist Art Caplan said the case is troubling and reflects "slippery slope" thinking among parents who believe "the way to deal with my kid with permanent behavioral problems is to put them into permanent childhood."

Right or wrong, the couple's decision highlights a dilemma thousands of parents face in struggling to care for severely disabled children as they grow up.

"This particular treatment, even if it's OK in this situation, and I think it probably is, is not a widespread solution and ignores the large social issues about caring for people with disabilities," Dr. Joel Frader, a medical ethicist at Chicago's Children's Memorial Hospital, said Thursday. "As a society, we do a pretty rotten job of helping caregivers provide what's necessary for these patients."

The case involves a girl identified only as Ashley on a blog her parents created after her doctors wrote about her treatment in October's Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine. The journal did not disclose the parents' names or where they live; the couple do not identify themselves on their blog, either.

Shortly after birth, Ashley had feeding problems and showed severe developmental delays. Her doctors diagnosed static encephalopathy, which means severe brain damage. They do not know what caused it.

Her condition has left her in an infant state, unable to sit up, roll over, hold a toy or walk or talk. Her parents say she will never get better. She is alert, startles easily, and smiles, but does not maintain eye contact, according to her parents, who call the brown-haired little girl their "pillow angel."

She goes to school for disabled children, but her parents care for her at home and say they have been unable to find suitable outside help.

An editorial in the medical journal called "the Ashley treatment" ill-advised and questioned whether it will even work. But her parents say it has succeeded so far.

She had surgery in July 2004 and recently completed the hormone treatment. She weighs about 65 pounds, and is about 13 inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter than she would be as an adult, according to her parents' blog.

"Ashley's smaller and lighter size makes it more possible to include her in the typical family life and activities that provide her with needed comfort, closeness, security and love: meal time, car trips, touch, snuggles, etc.," her parents wrote.

Also, Ashley's parents say keeping her small will reduce the risk of bedsores and other conditions that can afflict bedridden patients. In addition, they say preventing her from going through puberty means she won't experience the discomfort of periods or grow breasts that might develop breast cancer, which runs in the family.


Of course there's arguements from all sides.

Who exactly is this hurting? The parents have made a lot of good points. How on earth will Ashley cope with having the body of a grown woman, when her mind has been left far behind? Three months old is a mindset none of us can remember and therefore really understand.

As has been said earlier, what point is there of sitting in judgement of people who are living a life we've never tried? Maintaining the status quo with Ashley's physical state will surely help her.

----
For these parents to shamelessly mutilate their daughter in order to make her care less challenging is barbaric and shocking. In their utilitarian singlemindedness, they have stripped Ashley of her very human identity and rendered her a grisly, sad abomination. All responsible for allowing this ghastly act should be punished severely.
---
I�m with cannibalcritic on this one - such a severely brain-damaged girl should have been killed humanely as soon as the permanence of her condition was made clear. Surely what makes us human is our consciousness, that is, our self-awareness (beyond that of an animal-like ability to sense pain and bodily functions)? Denied this humanity, this poor girl is now, due to medical advances, having her humanity diminished still further. I understand the practical implications for this, but when a human being is so disabled as for it to be beneficial for them to remain undeveloped, to have their physical humanity denied them, in my opinion the kindest operation for him/her would be a euthanistic one.

If anyone finds a related incident, I'll stick it up here too.



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]mindset
2007-01-05 08:06 am UTC (link)
...

OK.

I'm going to be blunt here, and I'm normally not. But.

What the hell?! Whyyyyyyy do you see a post like this and think "ooh, there must be wank, let me post it to OTF!" What sort of result do you think you're going to get? There's no point-and-mock, there's no humor at *all*, there's just pain and suffering and pain. And it isn't wank! It's a heavy, controversial topic, but believe me, you're not going to get pretentious, self-righteous crap coming out of anyone but professional idiots or heartless trolls.

And all you're going to get *here* is completely serious discussions lacking any humor at all, and for a good reason. Tons of oversharing, thoughts on yaoi really fucking serious issues beyond limits, and of course, lots of OMGWTFNO. Oh, maybe, if you're lucky, someone who says the wrong thing and gets dogpiled on. Woo-fucking-hoo.

So. Did you honestly have a point? Do you, as the saying goes, understand the purpose of this community?

God.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sepiamagpie
2007-01-05 08:11 am UTC (link)
from hells heart I stab at thee, otf.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]hallidae
2007-01-05 08:18 am UTC (link)
...Yay for having the most ranty comment so far?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]mindset
2007-01-05 08:25 am UTC (link)
I'm not ranting about the topic. I'm perfectly happy to admit I'm ranting about OTF, though. :/ Aaaagh. This is not a debate comm! This is not a "tell me what you think about this horribly serious subject" comm! (Just because people *do* is not the point.) Making a post whose only purpose is to see what people think, or maybe possibly share the opinion of eugenicists and other things that make you hate humanity, is just not... it's not right, man, it's not funny, it's not entertaining, it's not what the _wank comms are for, and they shouldn't be, and a story like this shouldn't be brought up on them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hallidae
2007-01-05 08:31 am UTC (link)
So you're saying an argument where someone or someones pop up to advocate euthenizing a kid found to have a brain defect isn't wanky at all?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sepiamagpie
2007-01-05 08:32 am UTC (link)
'hella depressing'

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]thesilentsenshi, 2007-01-05 04:14 pm UTC

[info]hallidae
2007-01-05 08:33 am UTC (link)
Clicked 'post comment' too soon.

Addition to the previous statement: It may not be entertaining, but it's sure as fuck over the top.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2007-01-05 08:35 am UTC

[info]luna_hoshino
2007-01-05 08:34 am UTC (link)
It's not that it's not wanky... it's just that the subject really isn't something that's appropriate for wank communities. If you'll look at most of the other comments here, you'll notice that there's no mocking the stupid to speak of, just a lot of "oh my god that's depressing."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2007-01-05 12:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2007-01-05 08:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2007-01-05 10:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2007-01-05 03:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2007-01-05 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]entrenous88, 2007-01-05 01:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2007-01-05 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlebitca, 2007-01-05 05:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-01-05 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenclaw_devi, 2007-01-05 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlebitca, 2007-01-05 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2007-01-05 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - iwanttobeasleep, 2007-01-06 12:29 am UTC

[info]luna_hoshino
2007-01-05 08:32 am UTC (link)
THANK YOU. There's nothing even remotely amusing about this entire thing, even in the wankier comments. This SHOULDN'T be amusing, and I cringe a bit at the thought of some people finding it so.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2007-01-05 12:10 pm UTC

[info]felinephoenix
2007-01-05 10:03 am UTC (link)
Come here, I have to make sweet internets love to you. I'm just so grateful for this bit of rage and Earth Logic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]apoplexia
2007-01-05 10:31 am UTC (link)
I think we should make you a mod of otf_wank so that you too can know the transient but sublime joy of deleting it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bitca
2007-01-05 03:29 pm UTC (link)
SECONDED!

All in favor?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mindset
2007-01-05 06:47 pm UTC (link)
I can't decide if this would be a compliment or a punishment. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]apoplexia
2007-01-05 06:56 pm UTC (link)
It's only a punishment if you're foolish enough to actually read anything that goes on here. It's best just to show up now and then for random bannings and deletions. You know, your basic terrorist strategy.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2007-01-05 07:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2007-01-05 07:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2007-01-05 07:54 pm UTC

[info]oxydosic
2007-01-05 02:06 pm UTC (link)
Agree completely, this does not belong here. Yes it's terrible but why the hell does it belong on a snark community? We're here for the lulz, not to be depressed out of our minds. There are plenty of places to discuss this kind of thing...this comm isn't it.

And I'm not trying to be insensitive, frankly I've seen this already a month or two ago on booju and I really don't care to see this crap where I come to get AWAY from that sort of thing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]annabelle_lee
2007-01-05 05:58 pm UTC (link)
I'd congratulate you for summing up my feelings on this better than I could, but I can't find the words to do so. Everything I think of sounds really stupid.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]puipui
2007-01-05 07:29 pm UTC (link)
♥ ♥ ♥

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]shaysdays
2007-01-05 07:49 pm UTC (link)
GIP and hellz yeah.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]innsmouth_eyes
2007-01-06 07:14 am UTC (link)
Gah...can't stop staring...at the boobies...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]blue_linnet
2007-01-05 07:51 pm UTC (link)
I see your point...but this isn't the first really depressing/serious issue to be posted here. Recent dead puppy wank, discussions of sexual harassment and rape, talk of atrocities in war...that is all not exactly funny material either. There's certainly an argument to be made that OTF_wank isn't the place for any of that either, I suppose. Maybe in such cases, posting when there's a genuine debate with a couple trolls isn't the best idea...but if one of those topics gets taken over completely by people on all sides making it about their own agendas, post away? *shrug*

I always wondered the point of posting 'bad things people do to each other' articles in messageboards, where the only possible response is 'wow, that sucks'. At least here there's some discussion potential.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]mindset
2007-01-05 07:55 pm UTC (link)
At least here there's some discussion potential.

:( But it's not what OTF is *for*.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]blue_linnet
2007-01-05 07:59 pm UTC (link)
Well. No. Do you think those other topics I mentioned should also not be brought here? Say, the ones about bad things happening to animals, they're mostly people being horrified anyway.

And there have posts about topics like abortion here before plenty, which also tends to attract as much people talking about the issues than people making fun of others.

It's a hard line to draw is all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shaysdays, 2007-01-05 08:07 pm UTC

[info]judyhazeleyes
2007-01-05 08:27 pm UTC (link)
... at least we're getting kittens out of it?

But honestly, though I'm not quite as angry, I do agree.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rotten_fish
2007-01-05 08:31 pm UTC (link)
Ahhahahha, thank God the majority of my flist agrees with me. I had hoped I wasn't the only one who thought so. ♥ to you, mindset!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]tiki
2007-01-05 08:32 pm UTC (link)
Some of the comments in this thread made me chuckle. But I have a very dark sense of humour. Still, it's more than I've gotten from most otf_wank comments.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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