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seiberwing ([info]seiberwing) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-01-05 00:11:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
This is one of the not-fun wanks.
I'm going to quote from Comcast's newspage to give a summary of what's going on here, in an attempt to stay impartial.


6 hours ago

CHICAGO - In a case fraught with ethical questions, the parents of a severely mentally and physically disabled child have stunted her growth to keep their little "pillow angel" a manageable and more portable size.

The bedridden 9-year-old girl had her uterus and breast tissue removed at a Seattle hospital and received large doses of hormones to halt her growth. She is now 4-foot-5; her parents say she would otherwise probably reach a normal 5-foot-6.

The case has captured attention nationwide and abroad via the Internet, with some decrying the parents' actions as perverse and akin to eugenics. Some ethicists question the parents' claim that the drastic treatment will benefit their daughter and allow them to continue caring for her at home.

University of Pennsylvania ethicist Art Caplan said the case is troubling and reflects "slippery slope" thinking among parents who believe "the way to deal with my kid with permanent behavioral problems is to put them into permanent childhood."

Right or wrong, the couple's decision highlights a dilemma thousands of parents face in struggling to care for severely disabled children as they grow up.

"This particular treatment, even if it's OK in this situation, and I think it probably is, is not a widespread solution and ignores the large social issues about caring for people with disabilities," Dr. Joel Frader, a medical ethicist at Chicago's Children's Memorial Hospital, said Thursday. "As a society, we do a pretty rotten job of helping caregivers provide what's necessary for these patients."

The case involves a girl identified only as Ashley on a blog her parents created after her doctors wrote about her treatment in October's Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine. The journal did not disclose the parents' names or where they live; the couple do not identify themselves on their blog, either.

Shortly after birth, Ashley had feeding problems and showed severe developmental delays. Her doctors diagnosed static encephalopathy, which means severe brain damage. They do not know what caused it.

Her condition has left her in an infant state, unable to sit up, roll over, hold a toy or walk or talk. Her parents say she will never get better. She is alert, startles easily, and smiles, but does not maintain eye contact, according to her parents, who call the brown-haired little girl their "pillow angel."

She goes to school for disabled children, but her parents care for her at home and say they have been unable to find suitable outside help.

An editorial in the medical journal called "the Ashley treatment" ill-advised and questioned whether it will even work. But her parents say it has succeeded so far.

She had surgery in July 2004 and recently completed the hormone treatment. She weighs about 65 pounds, and is about 13 inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter than she would be as an adult, according to her parents' blog.

"Ashley's smaller and lighter size makes it more possible to include her in the typical family life and activities that provide her with needed comfort, closeness, security and love: meal time, car trips, touch, snuggles, etc.," her parents wrote.

Also, Ashley's parents say keeping her small will reduce the risk of bedsores and other conditions that can afflict bedridden patients. In addition, they say preventing her from going through puberty means she won't experience the discomfort of periods or grow breasts that might develop breast cancer, which runs in the family.


Of course there's arguements from all sides.

Who exactly is this hurting? The parents have made a lot of good points. How on earth will Ashley cope with having the body of a grown woman, when her mind has been left far behind? Three months old is a mindset none of us can remember and therefore really understand.

As has been said earlier, what point is there of sitting in judgement of people who are living a life we've never tried? Maintaining the status quo with Ashley's physical state will surely help her.

----
For these parents to shamelessly mutilate their daughter in order to make her care less challenging is barbaric and shocking. In their utilitarian singlemindedness, they have stripped Ashley of her very human identity and rendered her a grisly, sad abomination. All responsible for allowing this ghastly act should be punished severely.
---
I�m with cannibalcritic on this one - such a severely brain-damaged girl should have been killed humanely as soon as the permanence of her condition was made clear. Surely what makes us human is our consciousness, that is, our self-awareness (beyond that of an animal-like ability to sense pain and bodily functions)? Denied this humanity, this poor girl is now, due to medical advances, having her humanity diminished still further. I understand the practical implications for this, but when a human being is so disabled as for it to be beneficial for them to remain undeveloped, to have their physical humanity denied them, in my opinion the kindest operation for him/her would be a euthanistic one.

If anyone finds a related incident, I'll stick it up here too.



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]eilan
2007-01-05 10:36 am UTC (link)
I saw this on another community first and there were people who are caregivers for mentally disabled girls there who said that for some of the disabled girls, the onset of menstruation causes them to go into hysterics and so on. They just cannot deal with that, especially if it's painful. You cannot explain to them that it will go away, but come back the next month.

Ergh, that was probably a pointless comment. Sorry.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]april_hurst
2007-01-05 10:48 am UTC (link)
That's very true. It can be traumatic for a young girl who isn't mentally disabled if she doesn't know what's happening and nobody will tell her. (My mother refused to tell me why I was bleeding every month because I was, in her mind, too young to know. The first year, until we learned about the basic facts of life in school, was terrifying.) But at least I could deal with the physical discomfort. I couldn't imagine how much worse it would have been without the ability to reason "Okay, it didn't kill me the last four times, so I'll probably make it through this, and I could use some Pamprin."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


eviemouse
2007-01-05 10:57 am UTC (link)
My mother refused to tell me why I was bleeding every month because I was, in her mind, too young to know.

Wow. I mean, if you are old enough to have it, you should be old enough to know why, shouldn't you? I can't even imagine how frightening that must have been.

*HTML hates me today*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]april_hurst
2007-01-05 04:19 pm UTC (link)
I agree, It doesn't have to be the full-on condom and birth control pill explanation (although that's helpful and good), but at least enough info to know that it's normal, non-fatal, and nothing to be ashamed of.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]seiberwing
2007-01-05 04:37 pm UTC (link)
Yeah. It's just "you're going to bleed and be uncomfy in your nethers for a few days every month, but it's normal and okay".

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dana
2007-01-05 04:14 pm UTC (link)
My mother wasn't told about menstruation, she had hysterics at 9 years of age (we get it young in our family), thought she was dying.

Not nice.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]april_hurst
2007-01-05 04:23 pm UTC (link)
Pretty much same deal here, except one would hope that in the late 80's, people wouldn't be so prudish. I guess I'd feel funny talking to a nine-year-old about menstruation, too, but that's no reason not to do it. It's necessary.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]dana
2007-01-05 04:42 pm UTC (link)
I was given the sex education at eight, it was gross, but it was necessary, I started developing before I was ten.

I was a little girl, but still. But I grew up, eventually.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sithwitch13
2007-01-05 05:09 pm UTC (link)
...damn. Now I'm freaking grateful to my mom for all those horribly awkward talks about pregnancy and periods when I was four.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]your_face
2007-01-06 05:33 am UTC (link)
Ditto, but to my grandmother. Jesus.

(Although, apparently I wasn't sensitive at all when my little sister came running to me freaking out about it. Er, whoops? *doesn't remember*)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]semirecluse
2007-01-05 06:26 pm UTC (link)
My mother refused to tell me why I was bleeding every month because I was, in her mind, too young to know. The first year, until we learned about the basic facts of life in school, was terrifying.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


iwanttobeasleep
2007-01-06 12:14 am UTC (link)
No offense or anything, but your mother is insane (or at least that reasoning was).

Heck, it was scary enough for me, and I knew what was going on.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]aerobot
2007-01-05 11:20 am UTC (link)
That's what my mum said. Not only that, but there is the concern that these women will be taken advantage of by scumbags and then you have the major problem of pregnancy or abortion (with is ANOTHER tricky ethical issue).

That's the problem with this - it seems so WRONG, but yet somehow logical. It's a shitty situation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mambo
2007-01-05 02:52 pm UTC (link)
And add to that-- being a caregiver and suddenly having a girl who cannot care for herself menstruating all over the place.

I'm the primary caregiver for my severely handicapped brother, and as much bullshit as he puts me through sometimes, I only thank God he wasn't born a girl. I'm not sure if I could do that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]issendai
2007-01-05 06:07 pm UTC (link)
Since "Ashley" has a mental age of a few months, wouldn't her caretakers be changing her diapers and cleaning her off every few hours or so anyway? Cleaning up blood as well as everything else might be an extra ick, but it doesn't seem like it would be any extra trouble.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rosehiptea
2007-01-05 06:24 pm UTC (link)
I wasn't going to get into this, but I work with people who are pretty much in Ashley's condition. (Well, most of them are higher-functioning but they're virtually all in diapers.) I usually work with men, but you're essentially correct, they need to be changed every few hours anyway, so their menses get charted and that's about it. I won't say there might not be other issues, but cleanliness really shouldn't be one.

I might as well say it: I'm extremely horrified at what the parents have done, and when I discussed it with a nurse at work last night (who is not an over-sensitive person and is actually very cynical) he asked me if they'd been put in jail. These things would never, ever be considered for any of our clients. But I only saw the news story yesterday so maybe I'm still too upset to discuss it rationally.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]mindset
2007-01-05 06:32 pm UTC (link)
please see this thread. I do not wish to judge the parents pro or con, but the article was rather slanted and makes it sound like they went to a back-alley surgeon and/or hacked at their child themselves. It's an extremely complicated situation and rationality may be necessary.

(Since this arrrghhhh wtf post is still here.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2007-01-05 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2007-01-05 06:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2007-01-05 06:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2007-01-05 06:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2007-01-05 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2007-01-05 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slwatson, 2007-01-05 08:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2007-01-05 09:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2007-01-05 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2007-01-05 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2007-01-06 04:26 am UTC

[info]dana
2007-01-05 04:12 pm UTC (link)
And this, this is the reason why I'd have an abortion if I knew my child would end up like this.

Call me a crazy murdering eugenics monster, but seriously, no.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]indis_earfalas
2007-01-05 04:54 pm UTC (link)
Generally, I'm not a big fan of abortion - but in this kind of case, yeah, to find out something like that before the birth ... I'd be considering abortion too.

I do, however, have a massive problem with the idea of killing the child at a few months old.

Ugh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]dana
2007-01-05 05:02 pm UTC (link)
Children with obvious deformities were abandoned by most pre-industrial cultures at birth.

It was a matter of simple survival for the tribe.

I wonder if life has changed that much in this day and age? Especially since science has given us the ability to keep life going where normally it wouldn't.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]hallidae
2007-01-05 06:51 pm UTC (link)
Depends on where you're looking, honestly, and the ages and wishes of those involved. I'm still boggling at the respirator case in Italy.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kahteh, 2007-01-06 01:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2007-01-06 03:39 pm UTC

[info]grand_sealink
2007-01-05 07:28 pm UTC (link)
I agree. I have become almost crazy-paranoid about it and will be demanding amniocentesis at an early point in any pregnancy of mine.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]black_spot
2007-01-05 07:41 pm UTC (link)
I agree. I had my third child at 40 unexpectedly. I smoke and drink. Too right I took every test offered; even the ones where they were not sure about the results but every test helped with research for other children. He’s six today and absolutely perfect.

Also, I always hoped to have the guts to say “No” to any medical intervention if any of my children were born severely damaged. Thinking ahead to worse case scenarios is practical even if heartbreaking.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]marciamarcia
2007-01-06 12:05 am UTC (link)
I'm gonna have to second that. A situation like this is one of those things where I just can't see how living that life is beneficial for the child or her parents.

Frankly (and I know this is going to make me sound like a total asshole), if I found out after their birth that they were that severely handicapped, I'd put them in a home where professionals could take care of their needs. I'd visit. But I couldn't do that at home myself. And I'm not sure it would be better for the child to have me do it, rather than professionals.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]visp
2007-01-06 04:21 am UTC (link)
I'd probably do the same.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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