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	pantyless_angel 2007-01-06 09:21 pm UTC (link)
	Ok... I may be way out of the loop here but since when has letting your pet get laid at least once become animal cruelty? Two of our dogs made a litter of seven on accident. Every puppy found happy loving homes and are doing very well, even the ugly one. Should I expect the ASPCA, or PETA to come bust my ass now? (Reply to this)(Thread)

froda_baggins
2007-01-06 09:28 pm UTC (link)

I'm pretty sure we've had wank like this on here before, so my apologies for fapping away again, but, well, purposely trying to get your animal to breed so you can "have one of the puppies" (which is what the OP of the wank appears to want) is a pretty asshatty thing to do, and ignorant to boot. You might've been lucky to get loving homes for the puppies, but MANY puppies aren't nearly as lucky. It's much more humane to spay/neuter pets. Overpopulation DOES suck, though people on both sides of this wank are being stupid.

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katarin
2007-01-06 09:39 pm UTC (link)

right but like, I was under the impression that the decision to spay/neuter was a petowners decision, not something you will be dragged over the coals for on the internets.

Yes I'm aware there are tons of dogs and cats that need to be rescued, but it's not like the OP was going out and single handedly killing/kicking puppies and kittens.

I suppose I'm just shocked that it's apparently ok to go around telling people how to raise their dogs instead of suggesting what might be in the dog/everyone's best interest.

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	froda_baggins 2007-01-06 09:41 pm UTC (link)
	Well, like I said, both sides of this wank are being very, very wanky. It's kind of like a trainwreck. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katarin 2007-01-07 03:06 am UTC (link)
	nodnod, it's one of those things where I side with no one but if the OP hadn't dramallama'd and had all those histrionics we'd likely be siding with her on this whole thing, because those comments are FULL of fail. Luckily she did, and we can instead spend our time blinking and scratching our head and laughing as she threatens to call in her internet lawyer. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pantyless_angel 2007-01-06 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	Seriously it takes just about all my patients to keep from blowing up at my mom when she tells me i need to have my Kitty de-clawed to save the poor furniture. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	squib 2007-01-07 12:59 am UTC (link)
	And how many patients do you have, anyway? (Reply to this)(Parent)

nicolae
2007-01-07 02:31 am UTC (link)

right but like, I was under the impression that the decision to spay/neuter was a petowners decision, not something you will be dragged over the coals for on the internets.

And the decision to, say, beat your children is a parent's decision -- that doesn't mean it's not irresonsible to do it. I'm glad that your dogs' puppies found good homes, but there is a serious pet overpopulation problem in America, and every backyard breeder or accidental mating runs the risk of furthering the problem. (BTW, it's entirely possible to keep your dogs from having puppies. Spay or neuter them. It avoids serious health problems and helps to ensure that they won't have puppies that will be put to sleep.)

Can you please explain to me the difference between telling people how to raise their dogs and telling people that raising their dogs a certain way is best? Clearly no one is going to the OP's house to neuter her dog with a pair of hedge clippers -- it seems like all the commenters are trying to explain why what she's doing is a bad idea.

*mops up*

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katarin
2007-01-07 02:59 am UTC (link)

Ok, ummm, call me crazy, but I think deciding not to spay/neuter one's dog isn't really comparable to beating one's children. Also, I believe it's actually illegal to beat one's children, where as not spaying/neutering one's animals is just irresponsible.

I'm not the person who's dog had puppies (My puppy is being spayed as soon as she's 6 months) but I do sort of see her point, as it's her choice whether to spay/neuter her dog.

And the difference between telling someone what to do and suggesting what might be best should be obvious.

"Don't let your Old Ass Dog reproduce or else you're a puppy killing cunt! And here's some video of dead puppies to prove it!"

and

"Perhaps it's best not to breed your dog unless you're trained to do so. There are so many dogs and cats out there in need of homes that will end up having to be destroyed, It seems best to have all pets spayed or neuered."

Which do you think sounds like something anyone would reply to rationally? And from what I saw, the commenters (with the exception of the helpful person with the websites) were looking more to vilify the OP than actually educate. Education can be done without videos/pictures of dead animals.

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nicolae, 2007-01-07 03:06 am UTC

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katarin, 2007-01-07 03:09 am UTC

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nicolae, 2007-01-07 03:12 am UTC

(no subject) - iwanttobeasleep, 2007-01-07 07:58 pm UTC

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katarin, 2007-01-07 09:29 pm UTC

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loonylupinlover, 2007-01-07 11:55 pm UTC

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loonylupinlover, 2007-01-07 11:56 pm UTC

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katarin, 2007-01-08 12:02 am UTC

	mochibuni 2007-01-07 03:33 am UTC (link)
	And the decision to, say, beat your children is a parent's decision Yay wank. I request that we talk about Snape and Nazis now. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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katarin, 2007-01-07 03:54 am UTC

dar
2007-01-07 04:40 am UTC (link)

It's a pet owner's decision, but given that your dog and/or cat will be healthier, happier, and have no offspring that you need to place, why on earth would you choose anything else? If YOU had something unnecessary, and removal of it would make you significantly less prone to certain illnesses, keep you from swinging around hormonally, and the surgery was cheap and almost entirely without risks of any kind, you'd do it, wouldn't you? Why would you deny your pet that?

**Note: I work at an animal hospital. I am not talking out of my ass here.

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katarin
2007-01-07 04:50 am UTC (link)

Yes and see, if the people that commented to the OP had said that? We wouldn't be here. But instead of factual information and useful suggestions, she got videos/pictures of dead puppies and lots and lots of people screaming at her.

In my opinion, spaying/neutering your animal is the right decision. But it's my opinion, I'm not going to force that on other people. Now, other people can try and convince me otherwise and I'm much more likely to respond in a better way to that than if they try and take my head off for it.

I guess I just prefer if people don't try and force their ideas/beliefs/decisions on other people. I'm all for explaining to the OP why it's best for everyone if animals are spayed/neutered, but that's not what happened and that's what I don't agree with.

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	tao_tao 2007-01-08 12:19 am UTC (link)
	If YOU had something unnecessary, and removal of it would make you significantly less prone to certain illnesses, keep you from swinging around hormonally, and the surgery was cheap and almost entirely without risks of any kind, you'd do it, wouldn't you? Ha, I guess you missed the Pillow Angel wank report. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2007-02-06 10:21 am UTC

	big_bad_wolf 2007-01-07 01:40 am UTC (link)
	Nope, but I'm bored enough to come and grammar Nazi at you for "on accident". (Reply to this)(Parent)

nicolae
2007-01-07 03:22 am UTC (link)

The issue is not so much that your dog shouldn't get to have an orgasm (do female dogs have orgasms? inquiring minds want to know) as that producing puppies that aren't purebred and of good bloodlines can make it really hard to find them homes, and unwanted puppies being killed makes the baby Jesus cry. I'm really, really glad all your puppies found good homes, and I'm sure your family would have taken them back if their owners hadn't wanted them. PETA is full of crazy people who kill animals anyway -- no one (sane) is saying that breeding your dogs is animal cruelty, but it is hard and it can have seriously negative consequences.

Out of curiosity, how did you deal with your bitch not being spayed? My friend adopted a 3 year old lab who hadn't been spayed, and she went into heat before they could get her the operation, and it was a pain in the ass. Were you planning to breed her later?

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napalmnacey
2007-01-07 08:48 am UTC (link)

What's with this 'good bloodlines' and 'purebred' stuff? Since when was a purebred any better than your run of the mill mongrel? Genetically speaking, isn't the mongrel better off, with more diversity and a chance to avoid congential defects that some pure-breds get?

I mean, I'm with you - don't let your dogs breed for the hell of it - but I don't see why purebreds should get all the reproductive rights in the name of 'better genetics' cause that's just silly.

Or, by the 'good bloodlines' do you mean healthy, good-looking dogs that might not be entirely pure-bred?

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	pantyless_angel 2007-01-07 09:13 am UTC (link)
	From what I've seen out of our dogs (and cats for that matter) our mutts always do better and last longer than out pure breads, With our Brittany Spaniel, Ginger being the sole exception. We may just be very unlucky though.... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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napalmnacey, 2007-01-07 09:23 am UTC

nicolae
2007-01-07 09:39 am UTC (link)

Obviously not all purebred dogs are healthier than all mixed-breed dogs, or vice versa. Maybe I should have phrased it as "dogs from reputable breeders" but those do tend to be purebred ones, because most good breeders are involved in conformance and/or obedience, and the former depends on breed.

I think comformance is pretty silly in general, although some rules are based on actual concerns about health problems, but limiting breeding to animals with good genes -- temperment, health, etc. -- doesn't seem like such a bad idea. There are a lot of purebred dogs with serious congenital problems, and the more popular breeds -- goldens, german shepherds, cocker spaniels -- tend to run the risk of that a lot more.

By "good bloodlines" I mean healthy dogs with good temperments -- I just think you're more likely to get that when the parents' ancestries are known quantities, and you're more likely to get that when there's been record-keeping, which tends to happen more with purebreds.

I don't mean to come off as a breed snob. We have two Australian shepherds, neither of whom meet the breed standard, and I would rather have a mixed-breed whose parents I knew were healthy than a purebred I didn't. My dogs aren't going to be shown, and I don't care if they look the right way; I just don't want them to get sick or die young, because I love them lots.

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napalmnacey, 2007-01-07 10:00 am UTC

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nicolae, 2007-01-07 10:01 am UTC

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napalmnacey, 2007-01-07 10:05 am UTC

pantyless_angel
2007-01-07 09:08 am UTC (link)

YAY! fun fun story time! Star (The bitch)was a pure bread shelty Dad got for Mom years and years ago for Christmas. When she was a puppy Mom considered breading her but as she got older she started having problems. (We think it was because she was the runt of the litter which is why Dad got her for free.)
One of these problems was that she never went into a normal heat cycle, she never acted like she went into heat at all (We didn't even get the annoying male dogs that always show up when bitches go into heat). Our vet couldn't even explain it.

Anyway fast forward to when she's seven years old, The guy that farms our property has two dogs that always follow him when he goes to work. They usually stay and guard his farm equipment.

Star who had never so much as gone down our driveway suddenly disappears with these dogs. We searched for her for two months, on one of these searches Mom and I walked by this other farm where a large litter of puppies began to follow us back home until their mother came and made them go home.

About two weeks after this we were told by some one that star, and their puppy had been hit by a car. Mom decided to let me go and pick out one of the puppies from the other farm they were Sharpie/Border Collie mix, I picked out Grizzly, Who looks like a floppy eared coyote with hair by Don King.

A month latter a lady calls us to tell us she thinks she has our dog. She did, So now we have our newly resurrected dog, and a puppy. None of us even though about Star being able to breed until the next summer when I go out to feed bottle calves and find them locked together. We were all very surprised, and made vet appointments for both of them that afternoon. Grizz can still go with the flow when he wants but he's only shooting blanks now.

Sorry for the tldr.

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nicolae
2007-01-07 09:27 am UTC (link)

Heh, no problem about the length. I'm so glad you got your dog back, that must have been terrifying. Our dogs dug a hole under our fence and got out of the yard one afternoon, and even though we found them drinking out of a pool three blocks away it scared me half to death. I totally see why you didn't have her spayed, and none of that story makes your family sound irresponsible in the least. But it's also pretty different from what it sounds as if the OP was trying to do.

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pantyless_angel, 2007-01-07 07:14 pm UTC

dar
2007-01-07 04:44 am UTC (link)

When you fail to spay your bitch and she ends up with uterine cancer or something equally horrible, you can ask that question again. I would say that leaving the option open for something horrible like that to happen (we have a lovely specimen of a rotting ballsack from a dog carefully preserved at work) does indeed fall under animal cruelty, when the alternative is just so damned easy.

Give your companion animal the care you'd give yourself.

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dragonfangirl
2007-01-07 05:35 am UTC (link)

That's a loaded comparison, given that a lot of people who are reluctant to spay do so *because* they are empathizing too much with the animals. I mean, would you like to go have a hysterectomy? Right now? It will save you all sorts of medical complications in the future, and should you ever decide you want children, you can always adopt!

Which has nothing to do with the decision of whether or not to spay or neuter your animals, but that's the problem -- that people don't really understand, or accept, the disconnect between a sentient and a pet.

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nicolae
2007-01-07 09:45 am UTC (link)

That's why our male dogs haven't been neutered. My dad finds the idea really upsetting. *facepalm* Luckily, neither of them had any accompanying health problems. The worst was the time my (female) dog and I went on a hike with my friends bitch who was in heat, and when Val and I came home she smelled like dog-in-heat and our male dog humped the couch where she had been sitting and I had to clean up after him. Eeeeeeeew.

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slwatson
2007-01-07 07:14 am UTC (link)

I would say that leaving the option open for something horrible like that to happen (we have a lovely specimen of a rotting ballsack from a dog carefully preserved at work) does indeed fall under animal cruelty, when the alternative is just so damned easy.

And I would say that your statement falls dangerously under the 'high horse' mentality. My pets are spayed. Guess what? My pets, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, are rescues and strays. I have homed a frightening amount of animals. And while I sure as Hell would encourage people to spay/neuter, I wouldn't say those who're otherwise responsible are 'cruel pet owners' for not making the same decision.

Please to not be throwing stones until your soul is a shining bastion of perfect kindness and decency please.

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pantyless_angel
2007-01-07 08:37 am UTC (link)

So...My mother should go have herself spayed because she let Star have puppies, and how am I supposed to have my self neutered since I don't have the equipment in the first place?

I'm very sorry to hear about your rotting ball sack, but I still don't and doubt I will ever think letting an animal breed especially when you take responsibility for it, and provide proper care as we did (including vet visits to make sure Star could safely give birth.) is animal cruelty. So you can pull that oak tree out of your ass now.

*Reaches for tissues*

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