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froda_baggins
2007-01-06 09:28 pm UTC (link)

I'm pretty sure we've had wank like this on here before, so my apologies for fapping away again, but, well, purposely trying to get your animal to breed so you can "have one of the puppies" (which is what the OP of the wank appears to want) is a pretty asshatty thing to do, and ignorant to boot. You might've been lucky to get loving homes for the puppies, but MANY puppies aren't nearly as lucky. It's much more humane to spay/neuter pets. Overpopulation DOES suck, though people on both sides of this wank are being stupid.

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katarin
2007-01-06 09:39 pm UTC (link)

right but like, I was under the impression that the decision to spay/neuter was a petowners decision, not something you will be dragged over the coals for on the internets.

Yes I'm aware there are tons of dogs and cats that need to be rescued, but it's not like the OP was going out and single handedly killing/kicking puppies and kittens.

I suppose I'm just shocked that it's apparently ok to go around telling people how to raise their dogs instead of suggesting what might be in the dog/everyone's best interest.

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	froda_baggins 2007-01-06 09:41 pm UTC (link)
	Well, like I said, both sides of this wank are being very, very wanky. It's kind of like a trainwreck. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katarin 2007-01-07 03:06 am UTC (link)
	nodnod, it's one of those things where I side with no one but if the OP hadn't dramallama'd and had all those histrionics we'd likely be siding with her on this whole thing, because those comments are FULL of fail. Luckily she did, and we can instead spend our time blinking and scratching our head and laughing as she threatens to call in her internet lawyer. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pantyless_angel 2007-01-06 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	Seriously it takes just about all my patients to keep from blowing up at my mom when she tells me i need to have my Kitty de-clawed to save the poor furniture. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	squib 2007-01-07 12:59 am UTC (link)
	And how many patients do you have, anyway? (Reply to this)(Parent)

nicolae
2007-01-07 02:31 am UTC (link)

right but like, I was under the impression that the decision to spay/neuter was a petowners decision, not something you will be dragged over the coals for on the internets.

And the decision to, say, beat your children is a parent's decision -- that doesn't mean it's not irresonsible to do it. I'm glad that your dogs' puppies found good homes, but there is a serious pet overpopulation problem in America, and every backyard breeder or accidental mating runs the risk of furthering the problem. (BTW, it's entirely possible to keep your dogs from having puppies. Spay or neuter them. It avoids serious health problems and helps to ensure that they won't have puppies that will be put to sleep.)

Can you please explain to me the difference between telling people how to raise their dogs and telling people that raising their dogs a certain way is best? Clearly no one is going to the OP's house to neuter her dog with a pair of hedge clippers -- it seems like all the commenters are trying to explain why what she's doing is a bad idea.

*mops up*

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katarin
2007-01-07 02:59 am UTC (link)

Ok, ummm, call me crazy, but I think deciding not to spay/neuter one's dog isn't really comparable to beating one's children. Also, I believe it's actually illegal to beat one's children, where as not spaying/neutering one's animals is just irresponsible.

I'm not the person who's dog had puppies (My puppy is being spayed as soon as she's 6 months) but I do sort of see her point, as it's her choice whether to spay/neuter her dog.

And the difference between telling someone what to do and suggesting what might be best should be obvious.

"Don't let your Old Ass Dog reproduce or else you're a puppy killing cunt! And here's some video of dead puppies to prove it!"

and

"Perhaps it's best not to breed your dog unless you're trained to do so. There are so many dogs and cats out there in need of homes that will end up having to be destroyed, It seems best to have all pets spayed or neuered."

Which do you think sounds like something anyone would reply to rationally? And from what I saw, the commenters (with the exception of the helpful person with the websites) were looking more to vilify the OP than actually educate. Education can be done without videos/pictures of dead animals.

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nicolae
2007-01-07 03:06 am UTC (link)

Well, obviously not spaying one's dog is not the same thing as beating one's children, but both are individual choices. Something being an individual choice does not necessarily mean that it is morally acceptable, which is what I was trying to suggest.

I totally agree that the first commenter's attitude and approach was deeply flawed. There were a number of thoughtful commenters who took the latter route, but the first comment seems to have upset the OP to the extent that she didn't respond rationally at all. You're right that the latter example is much more effective, but the first one isn't really a suggestion at all, just an ad hominem attack.

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	katarin 2007-01-07 03:09 am UTC (link)
	Right, and seeing as the OP is seriously looking to breed her dog, actual attempts at education could have done quite a bit for her, that's all I was getting at. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	nicolae 2007-01-07 03:12 am UTC (link)
	Totally agreed. They didn't go about it very well (in terms of niceness or effectiveness), but that doesn't mean that they're wrong. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2007-01-07 07:58 pm UTC (link)
	I think it might be more akin to having your babies immunized. Your choice, yes, but the pros so outweight the cons. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katarin 2007-01-07 09:29 pm UTC (link)
	right, not saying you shouldn't spay/neuter your dog, just saying that not getting it done isn't the same as ZOMG!Child ABUSE! (Reply to this)(Parent)

loonylupinlover
2007-01-07 11:55 pm UTC (link)

I don't think that beating one's children is the same as not spaying/neutering your pets. However, both can have serious health consequences. Not spaying dogs or cats can leave them at risk for pyometra, a nasty condition where the uterus and fallopian tubes fill with pus. The link is a webpage showing surgery pictures of a dog whose uterus should've weighed 8 ounces but was closer to 8 POUNDS. This is potentially life-threatening and also fully preventable. Testicular and breast cancer are also preventable with spaying/neutering. Not only does spaying/neutering prevent unwanted litters and overpopulation, but it can ultimately save your pet's life.

Just bringing up something no one's seemed to mention yet.

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	loonylupinlover 2007-01-07 11:56 pm UTC (link)
	Whoops, I was mistaken. The surgery pictures are actually of a 9-lb poodle, so the infected uterus weighed over a pound, but not 8. In some cases they have weighed 8 pounds, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	katarin 2007-01-08 12:02 am UTC (link)
	right, as I said above, I'm not saying people shouldn't spay/neuter their pets. I'm just saying not spaying/neutering =/= child abuse. Also, if the OP had received informative, concerned comments like this, this entire thing might have turned out differently. Or maybe not, the OP seems pretty fucking nuts. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mochibuni 2007-01-07 03:33 am UTC (link)
	And the decision to, say, beat your children is a parent's decision Yay wank. I request that we talk about Snape and Nazis now. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katarin 2007-01-07 03:54 am UTC (link)
	It feels like it should be a corollary to Godwin's Law, where instead of comparing non comparable things to the Holocaust or Nazis, we compare them to child abuse. Quick, some one open up something in jurisimprudence! (Reply to this)(Parent)

dar
2007-01-07 04:40 am UTC (link)

It's a pet owner's decision, but given that your dog and/or cat will be healthier, happier, and have no offspring that you need to place, why on earth would you choose anything else? If YOU had something unnecessary, and removal of it would make you significantly less prone to certain illnesses, keep you from swinging around hormonally, and the surgery was cheap and almost entirely without risks of any kind, you'd do it, wouldn't you? Why would you deny your pet that?

**Note: I work at an animal hospital. I am not talking out of my ass here.

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katarin
2007-01-07 04:50 am UTC (link)

Yes and see, if the people that commented to the OP had said that? We wouldn't be here. But instead of factual information and useful suggestions, she got videos/pictures of dead puppies and lots and lots of people screaming at her.

In my opinion, spaying/neutering your animal is the right decision. But it's my opinion, I'm not going to force that on other people. Now, other people can try and convince me otherwise and I'm much more likely to respond in a better way to that than if they try and take my head off for it.

I guess I just prefer if people don't try and force their ideas/beliefs/decisions on other people. I'm all for explaining to the OP why it's best for everyone if animals are spayed/neutered, but that's not what happened and that's what I don't agree with.

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	tao_tao 2007-01-08 12:19 am UTC (link)
	If YOU had something unnecessary, and removal of it would make you significantly less prone to certain illnesses, keep you from swinging around hormonally, and the surgery was cheap and almost entirely without risks of any kind, you'd do it, wouldn't you? Ha, I guess you missed the Pillow Angel wank report. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2007-02-06 10:21 am UTC (link)
	Well, no, not necessarily. I mean, I haven't had myself neutered. Have you? It'll keep you from swinging around hormonally, and there's an overpopulation problem anyway! (Reply to this)(Parent)

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