Remember when we were talking about vaginas?

This whole thing is probably not safe for work.

Over at Metafilter, a post about a doctor getting away with performing Female Genital Mutilations gets derailed by some of the guys coming in wanting to talk about their circumcisions and how traumatizing the practice is. There's complaining in thread about this, and we all troop over to Metatalk to bitch at length about everyone's penis.

Then the user spacediver comes in and... Oh hell, I'll just give you a sample of his comments.

"Quite simply, we do not accord even close to the same respect to male sexual anatomy, as we do to female sexual anatomy." That's right. It's all about the vaginas!

"In fact, i'd say that male genital cutting is more relevant to this case than is female genital cutting, since the medical establishment plays a much bigger role in the former." Okay, let's think about this. Male circumcision is more relevant to a case about female genital mutilation how?

"...many women who are circumcised feel exactly the same way about their bodies. They don't think they're missing anything..." It's like those old coffee commercials. Today we've replaced her vagina with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if she can tell the difference.

The regulars respond in their usual way.

"I've also heard that intact males can actually hear the choruses of Angels singing in Heaven and that their stools are gigantic and have no more odor than a hot biscuit." - Divine_Wino

"[T]hey can also fly to Spain using their foreskins as hot air balloons and only the flatulence of the Gods to stay aloft." - jonmc

Indeed.

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hobbitsexual
2007-01-10 02:21 am UTC (link)

I don't think the two can be compared. At all. They are radically different and are motivated by different reasons. Female circumcision is an indictment of female sexuality, intended to cripple. Male circumcision is for cleanliness.

and i find most guys have such poor standards of personal hygiene that i highly and strongly support all men getting circumcisions! i have met men with foreskins that barely pull back, twisted at the head - how on earth can they clean themselves properly or detect some forms of stis? for some it's painful to have sex. a circumcision would solve the problem and it is such a minor procedure i don't understand what the fuss is about.

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	mmanurere 2007-01-10 07:36 am UTC (link)
	If it goes badly, a circumcision can lead to infection and scarring. Still definitely far less traumatic than FGM...but, y'know, I wouldn't mind having to go to a bit of extra hygiene effort in exchange for the lack of scarring. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hobbitsexual 2007-01-10 07:40 am UTC (link)
	the difference being that most guys just DON'T... which could be a whole other issue in itself, coyness around teaching kids to wash their bits properly... I would also suggest that the rate of infection and scarring in male circumcision to that in FGM are probably quite drastically different. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mmanurere
2007-01-10 07:59 am UTC (link)

I'm sure the rates of scarring are vastly different. The only male scarring case that I know of (very) personally was one in which the circumcision was done in a country where the procedure wasn't common (and so the doctors had little experience).

(And even with the scarring, we're not talking about the same level of loss of sexual function as with the removal of the clitoris or even more extreme forms of FGM. Hearing about some of those just makes me hurt in bits that I have never had.)

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	hobbitsexual 2007-01-10 08:49 am UTC (link)
	i once met a guy who thought he had circumcision scarring, but it turned out to just be pearly penile papules. another condition that is barely ever talked about and often misunderstood. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mmanurere 2007-01-10 08:54 am UTC (link)
	More medical conditions should have alliterative names. (...and how little familiarity would a guy have to have with his own anatomy to confuse the foreskin connection area with the glans?) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

hobbitsexual
2007-01-10 08:59 am UTC (link)

it's almost too humorous a name to be taken seriously, yet it is the cause of much anxiety in many men who think they have an STI!

look, one of the main reasons i advocate circumcision for men is that so many men are just completely ignorant of their sexual organs, what goes on down there, what's normal and what isn't, and afraid or embarrassed of seeking advice or treatment and there's this hysteria surrounding male circumcision now that i feel is really unwarranted.

and i hate it when people make FGM topics about male circumcision, which i have just successfully done! for shame.

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	mmanurere 2007-01-10 05:30 pm UTC (link)
	Well, much of the wank was about people equating the two, and so far we've been pretty good at reinforcing with every comment the fact that the two are really not even comparable. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	semirecluse 2007-01-10 07:37 pm UTC (link)
	"Pearly penile papules" = new favorite phrase :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2007-01-10 08:28 am UTC (link)
	What's with your capitalization? I seem to remember that you used to do it properly, and then you stopped, and now you're half doing it properly and half not at all? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hobbitsexual 2007-01-10 08:48 am UTC (link)
	depends on how lazy i'm feeling, to be completely honest. (Reply to this)(Parent)

mastervex
2007-01-10 07:42 am UTC (link)

Because you personally think no male is capable of proper hygiene, all male babies need to have their genitals altered. And adult males who actually have problems with their foreskin choosing to have it removed, and children who are born with problems with it and have surgery to fix it? That's exactly the same as doing it just in case to all babies without letting them grow up and decide whether they want bits of their body cut off, when there's no actual medical or logical reason whatsoever for it to be standard, and the practice only became common here in the first place for lovely reasons like wanting to prevent masturbation, and then later because daddy thinks his kid's penis needs to look just like his.

Do you believe all parts of people's bodies that aren't one hundred percent necessary to live/function ought to be cut off at birth, just in case the baby might grow up to be a slob or might possibly develop some kind of health problem sometime in their lives?

Anyone who thinks it compares to female circumcision is a moron, and men who want to derail every discussion of the horrors of female circumcision into wah wah what about my penis need to shut the fuck up, but seriously. "Men can't wash themselves!" and "Some men could possibly have problems with their foreskin someday!" are the goddamn stupidest lines of reasoning for why there's absolutely nothing wrong with altering babies' genitals just because people want to do it.

And knock off that fucking e. e. cummings shit because I'm sick of seeing it. You've shown you know where the shift key is, so use it.

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hobbitsexual
2007-01-10 08:56 am UTC (link)

re-read, genius:

"highly and strongly support all men getting circumcisions"

key word here being MEN.

your comments are ridiculous; nowhere do i suggest that 'all' body parts that aren't 100% necessary need to be removed - i keep it to foreskins and i specify MEN. you're derailing the subject now.

why i do that is because of the HUGE NUMBER of men i've encountered who have problematic foreskins or abominably poor hygiene and who never consider that circumcision is a reasonable option.

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	slwatson 2007-01-10 10:35 pm UTC (link)
	There is a Shift key. It is just under the Caps Lock key on the left side and just under the Enter key on the right. Use it, please. You're really kinda making yourself look stupid. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hobbitsexual 2007-01-10 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	pats ok then! whatever makes you feel superior, sweetie. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	renata_hpjc 2007-01-10 10:58 pm UTC (link)
	Do you believe all parts of people's bodies that aren't one hundred percent necessary to live/function ought to be cut off at birth, just in case the baby might grow up to be a slob or might possibly develop some kind of health problem sometime in their lives? Appendectomies for all! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	windex_junkie 2007-01-15 11:20 am UTC (link)
	I love you so god damned much right now that words fail me. But I STILL REMEMBER WHERE THE SHIFT KEY IS. (Reply to this)(Parent)

CLEANLINESS?!

windex_junkie
2007-01-15 11:27 am UTC (link)

You know, not to wank or anything, but... WHAT THE MOTHERFUCKING HELL IS FUCKING WRONG WITH YOU, BITCH?!

This is where I would point out that just because "most guys" you know cannot, apparently, wash their wang, does not mean that applies to all men, and while the relative horrors of chopping bits off unwilling folks' genitalia may vary according to the bits forcibly and involuntarily removed...

Oh, fuck the literacy. I am too revolted by your statements. GTFO, and get your own damn Kleenex too, because you royally deserve spooge in the eye.

Also: What the fuck is an "stis"?

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