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sometime practicioner of earth logic ([info]imadra_blue) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-05-10 15:08:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Wanky Biblical Exegesis Fun For The Whole Family!
So, [info]skzbrust, author of the Dragaera books (of which contain, most notably, the Vlad Taltos series) posted a little blurb on his LJ* about a Republican friend of his who offered a sarcastic alteration of John 3:15 to prove a point about gay-bashing.

Because it deserves to be posted everywhere, this friend said:
"That whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting, except for you two cocksuckers in back, because ain't no fucking fags gettin' into heaven!"

Most people respond with sarcasm in a similar vein or with resounding approval, but what's a post about Jesus without someone commenting who misses the point? Aptly titling the comment with "Someone is confused," "Holy Crusader For Great Justice" aka [info]dvcastle says:

"Speaking for Jesus is a pretty bold move. I mean, if the manger and the cross and the entire story in between doesn't scream out that the penultimate virtue is humility then maybe I missed something."

Then, "Bitter Satanist Somebody Set Up Us The Bomb" aka [info]cpxbrex responds with:

"Jesus doesn't come off to me as particularly humble. He comes off as an arrogant jerk, really....Sorry, any asshat who condemns most of the human race to hellfire because they don't accept the holy spirit or whatever is not humble. That's arrogance on a massive scale."

Now, really, [info]cpxbrex, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

As predicted by cloistered Franciscan monks for thousands of years in ancient prophecy, the people respond to this heresy. Responses vary from agreement to patient sermons about how awesome Jesus really was, because he died and stuff.

Choice quotes:
[info]hellmutt: "He comes across very arrogantly to me too (although at least he denies that he's God, which is nice)."

Uh, denies he's God? That's funny, he spends most of the Gospel of John affirming that he and the Father are one. Someone fell asleep during Sunday school.

[info]cpxbrex: "Positive aspect of his religion? When was the last time a Christian was humble?"

I'm guessing he doesn't know many people or read much history?

[info]mattador: "While I respect the point you're trying to make, a) turning down a gift doesn't mean it wasn't given to you, and b) you have absolutely no empirical basis for saying that you haven't been helped by it happening."

Aren't religionists cute when they use big words like "empirical?"

[info]talesya: "This is the most patently absurd claim Christians like to make. They somehow think that an all-powerful being being inconvenienced for a few hours is somehow a sacrifice which demands the adulation of every human who lives."

Come on. Christians make a lot of patently absurd claims. I wouldn't say this is the most absurd.

[info]dvcastle: "If it wasn't a sacrifice for the infinite God to become a fetus in a womb, be born in the most humble manner, live a sinless life while subject to all its torments and temptations and ultimately to be tortured to death, then what verifiable method would meet your criteria?"

I'm sorry, I got hung up on the idea of God as a fetus and paid no attention to the rest of the sentence. Do you think he glowed wth a holy aura on the inside? Did Mary's pregnant belly look like that of a Glow Worm? How many jelly beans do you think I can fit in my mouth?

[info]cpxbrex: "To me, he comes off like just another end-of-the-world nutter mindlessly challenging authority in order to bring about his eschatology. He's as much a social reformer as Jim Jones or L. Ron Hubbard was."

Damn, man. I'm about as Christian as Gandhi was, but that's harsh. No one deserves to be compared to L. Ron Hubbard. No one.

[info]cpxbrex: "It would be hard for me to be smarter than I think I am. See, I already consider myself waaaaaaay smarter than C.S. Lewis. For instance, I know what Jesus said was not true. ;)"

And remember kids, when wanking about a popular religious figure, it always boils down to how much smarter than C.S. Lewis you are. Or something. I'm going to go watch The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.


--

* - I'd just like to say that the title of [info]skzbrust's post, "Jesus and the Gays," sounds like a band name. I'm picturing a hairy guy in white robes playing an electric guitar surrounded by flashy metrosexuals on keyboards and drums. Song titles could include, "Messiah Love You Long Time," "Going Down To Be Born From Above," and "Just Wait For The Second Coming."

Edit: Fixed the spelling of Gandhi.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
(Anonymous)
2007-05-10 10:15 pm UTC (link)
What's odd is I can deal with immaculate conception, but the idea that Mary stayed a virgin after the birth? Nuh-uh. She had a husband, folks. Even if they weren't mentioned in the Bible, weirdly enough that's one stretch of imagination I can't make.

(And *squee* omg Lamb!)

-Lady Jane Doe

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]karmyn75
2007-05-10 10:33 pm UTC (link)
Shh. Anne Rice might hear you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]sepiamagpie
2007-05-10 10:46 pm UTC (link)
Because it would be impossible for him to hold back in the name of his god or anything.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]napalmnacey
2007-05-12 10:33 am UTC (link)
I dunno. Mary was pretty hot. Apparently she looked like Olivia Hussey!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]puipui
2007-05-10 10:56 pm UTC (link)
IIRC, Jesus has four brothers who are listed by name in the bible, plus an unknown number of sisters who aren't specifically named, and there's more than one mention of him having siblings. So if Mary was "ever virgin" then doesn't the whole sibling thing make Jesus less special? "But Mooooo-om! You said that I got to be the virgin birth! How come they get to be virgin births, too? It's just not fair!"

And that doesn't even take into account the whole thing where immaculate conception doesn't refer to the virgin birth but to Mary being free of original sin and something about the way she was born and sanctifying grace and blah blah rationalizationcakes. Would it make more sense to me if I were Catholic? 'Cause I don't get the whole immaculate conception thingie at all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]vergilsparda
2007-05-10 11:02 pm UTC (link)
Pope sez the brothers and sisters was a figure of speech, see.

Also, the Immaculate Conception is the dogma that Mary was born free of the Original Sin and led a sinless life. The little mousy above is confused with the Incarnation dogma (Mary conceived Jesus thanks to Gabriel the Holy Spirit without any human intervention).

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
rowleyorama
2007-05-10 11:17 pm UTC (link)
From what I understand it, some of those siblings were from Joseph's first wife. Doesn't account for the fact that once Mary was done recovering, she and Joseph probably had some alone time while hiding away in Egypt.

Now I'm imagining them asking for a babysitter...

"Hey, will you watch the Son of God for a few hours tomorrow night? Mary has this whole thing planned, and yeah. It'll just be a little while, I promise! Please?"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]shaysdays
2007-05-11 12:03 am UTC (link)
"He'll be a little angel!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 12:26 am UTC (link)
Naw. It makes even less sense if you are a part of the religion. The church has messed around with things in the last few years. I've got a really, really old Bible (my grandmother passed it on to me) and oh man! Compared to the ones you can get now...wow...the differences are interesting. Used to crack me up. Now it just makes me sad.

Hauen

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]brown_betty
2007-05-11 01:33 am UTC (link)
Heh. Thank you, I was about to wank about how few people actually understand what "immaculate conception" even refers to.

(also not Catholic)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]imadra_blue
2007-05-11 03:43 am UTC (link)
The way to remember it is that Immaculate Conception = Album by Madonna. Madonna, of course, being a moniker for Mary. Because everything I learned about religion was through controversial 80's pop stars. :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]cookie_love
2007-05-10 11:16 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, and he had a brother named James.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
rowleyorama
2007-05-10 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Wasn't it some Big Deal that when Jesus was taken to the cross, he asked James the Apostle to watch over Mary instead of James, his actual brother?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]exdee
2007-05-11 12:18 am UTC (link)
James was supposed to be the Apostle He Luffed, iirc. Except when that's Mary Magdalene.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
rowleyorama
2007-05-11 12:27 am UTC (link)
Was it Mary Magdalene? I thought it had to do with the issue of Jesus being the male in society taking care of his mother, and then he had to ask someone else to take care of her after the whole death and ascension thing. In asking someone outside of his family, it was an insult to his actual brother and showed just exactly how much Jesus trusted and loved James.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]puipui
2007-05-11 12:28 am UTC (link)
Is that different than the Disciple Whom Jesus Loved, then? 'Cause I thought that was supposed to be John. Except when it's Lazarus.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]mmanurere
2007-05-11 01:20 am UTC (link)
Traces of a fan-style fight over which apostle was biggest BFF with Jesus?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]exdee
2007-05-11 02:29 am UTC (link)
shit, it was John. This term's Theo was more about North Africans and less Bible and my brain is trying to get rid of THAT as quick as possible.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]luthe
2007-05-11 04:22 am UTC (link)
Jesus was just a slut, wasn't it?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]wrongly_amused
2007-05-10 11:29 pm UTC (link)
It's funnier when you realize that's it's actually stated in the Bible that John and Mary ultimately did consummate the marriage.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]jat_sapphire
2007-05-11 01:14 am UTC (link)
John? John?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]wrongly_amused
2007-05-11 02:31 am UTC (link)
Finals today, plz forgive. Brain is fried. :-(

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]influencethis
2007-05-11 07:51 am UTC (link)
OOOH! Where might these elusive passages be?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]wrongly_amused
2007-05-11 03:28 pm UTC (link)
It's in Matthew. I know some people would argue it could be interpreted otherwise, but I think it's pretty darn hard to deny that this passage implies anything but delayed consummation:

“...being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” (Matthew 1:24, 25)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: They all need to read "Lamb"
[info]amyheartssiroc
2007-05-11 12:37 am UTC (link)
According to Church tradition, Joseph was an older widower who took Mary in to take care of her. Given the dynamics in that relationship, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that they may not have had sex.

(I also don't think it's an important enough doctrine to wank about, though.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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