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sometime practicioner of earth logic ([info]imadra_blue) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-05-10 15:08:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Wanky Biblical Exegesis Fun For The Whole Family!
So, [info]skzbrust, author of the Dragaera books (of which contain, most notably, the Vlad Taltos series) posted a little blurb on his LJ* about a Republican friend of his who offered a sarcastic alteration of John 3:15 to prove a point about gay-bashing.

Because it deserves to be posted everywhere, this friend said:
"That whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting, except for you two cocksuckers in back, because ain't no fucking fags gettin' into heaven!"

Most people respond with sarcasm in a similar vein or with resounding approval, but what's a post about Jesus without someone commenting who misses the point? Aptly titling the comment with "Someone is confused," "Holy Crusader For Great Justice" aka [info]dvcastle says:

"Speaking for Jesus is a pretty bold move. I mean, if the manger and the cross and the entire story in between doesn't scream out that the penultimate virtue is humility then maybe I missed something."

Then, "Bitter Satanist Somebody Set Up Us The Bomb" aka [info]cpxbrex responds with:

"Jesus doesn't come off to me as particularly humble. He comes off as an arrogant jerk, really....Sorry, any asshat who condemns most of the human race to hellfire because they don't accept the holy spirit or whatever is not humble. That's arrogance on a massive scale."

Now, really, [info]cpxbrex, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

As predicted by cloistered Franciscan monks for thousands of years in ancient prophecy, the people respond to this heresy. Responses vary from agreement to patient sermons about how awesome Jesus really was, because he died and stuff.

Choice quotes:
[info]hellmutt: "He comes across very arrogantly to me too (although at least he denies that he's God, which is nice)."

Uh, denies he's God? That's funny, he spends most of the Gospel of John affirming that he and the Father are one. Someone fell asleep during Sunday school.

[info]cpxbrex: "Positive aspect of his religion? When was the last time a Christian was humble?"

I'm guessing he doesn't know many people or read much history?

[info]mattador: "While I respect the point you're trying to make, a) turning down a gift doesn't mean it wasn't given to you, and b) you have absolutely no empirical basis for saying that you haven't been helped by it happening."

Aren't religionists cute when they use big words like "empirical?"

[info]talesya: "This is the most patently absurd claim Christians like to make. They somehow think that an all-powerful being being inconvenienced for a few hours is somehow a sacrifice which demands the adulation of every human who lives."

Come on. Christians make a lot of patently absurd claims. I wouldn't say this is the most absurd.

[info]dvcastle: "If it wasn't a sacrifice for the infinite God to become a fetus in a womb, be born in the most humble manner, live a sinless life while subject to all its torments and temptations and ultimately to be tortured to death, then what verifiable method would meet your criteria?"

I'm sorry, I got hung up on the idea of God as a fetus and paid no attention to the rest of the sentence. Do you think he glowed wth a holy aura on the inside? Did Mary's pregnant belly look like that of a Glow Worm? How many jelly beans do you think I can fit in my mouth?

[info]cpxbrex: "To me, he comes off like just another end-of-the-world nutter mindlessly challenging authority in order to bring about his eschatology. He's as much a social reformer as Jim Jones or L. Ron Hubbard was."

Damn, man. I'm about as Christian as Gandhi was, but that's harsh. No one deserves to be compared to L. Ron Hubbard. No one.

[info]cpxbrex: "It would be hard for me to be smarter than I think I am. See, I already consider myself waaaaaaay smarter than C.S. Lewis. For instance, I know what Jesus said was not true. ;)"

And remember kids, when wanking about a popular religious figure, it always boils down to how much smarter than C.S. Lewis you are. Or something. I'm going to go watch The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.


--

* - I'd just like to say that the title of [info]skzbrust's post, "Jesus and the Gays," sounds like a band name. I'm picturing a hairy guy in white robes playing an electric guitar surrounded by flashy metrosexuals on keyboards and drums. Song titles could include, "Messiah Love You Long Time," "Going Down To Be Born From Above," and "Just Wait For The Second Coming."

Edit: Fixed the spelling of Gandhi.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]nekoama
2007-05-10 11:39 pm UTC (link)
ARGH, I hate religious wank. It always manages to leave me in a pissy mood, but I can never stop myself from reading it. I mean firstly, for fuck's sake, the Bible was written millenia ago by a bunch of dudes based on what they heard/saw. AND THEN it was translated a hundred times over in different languages. Who knows how much scripture is still intact? Jesus could've wrote love letters and scented them with flowers to change everything he was against, but it was written to make him sounds more badass and more 'Fear God!' Who knows?
And This thread is just driving me up every wall.
While it may or may not be true, all who are good and beleive in God will also live eternally in heaven, just like Jesus. So if I rip a Good Christian's body apart with chopsticks while fire ants ate his wounds, it shouldn't matter because fuck that suffering right there, dude's gonna live forever!
And this ? You're right, he did all that without blinking. That the rain was, metaphorically, God weeping (and that he hated doing it so much he swore he'd never do it again). And He put off killing the kids for as long as possible and had Moses beg the Pharoh numerous times to not force God to do it.
And Hell is just the space Without God. I don't know why we haven't go the PC way yet and just called 'Atheist Heaven'. Sounds more pleasent, doncha think?
Now if you'll excuse, I has me a mess to clean.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]tigerlily
2007-05-11 02:59 am UTC (link)
Comment title FTW

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]pariforma
2007-05-11 08:48 pm UTC (link)
Seconded!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]omega
2007-05-11 05:47 am UTC (link)
AND THEN it was translated a hundred times over in different languages. Who knows how much scripture is still intact?

Yes, and? Then did we round up all the people that read Biblical Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek and take them behind the barn? The languages are probably being taught at your local community college, so I really don't get the "And then the Bible was translated a bazillion times over!!!1" argument.

If the Qumran finds have showed anything, it's that the Masoretic text of the Old Testament has changed very little over time. And the New Testament was written in Greek. Who knows how much scripture has been corrupted? The Biblical scholars know. Don't trust them? Learn for yourself.

Your first point, however, stands.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]dragonfangirl
2007-05-11 09:07 am UTC (link)
The Biblical scholars know. Don't trust them? Learn for yourself.

This is true, but I really doubt that any of the biblical scholars are involved in this wank. They rarely are.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]omega
2007-05-11 11:44 am UTC (link)
You might be surprised.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]nekoama
2007-05-11 11:17 am UTC (link)
I almost never trust translations, expecially if it's taken word-for-word literally. Some languages have words/sayings/meanings that others don't. I've almost never seen a French<->English translation that's ever accurate, so I just assume that for every language.

Without trying to be arguing, I don't really understand your first line?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]omega
2007-05-11 11:53 am UTC (link)
There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people fully capable of reading the Bible in the languages originally written. The Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament haven't vanished in the mists of time, nor has our understanding of them (save a few odd words), so this translation-balooza has never made any sense to me.

It'd take about two semesters of Biblical Greek to be able to translate the New Testament for oneself. The language of it isn't that hard.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]omega
2007-05-11 12:00 pm UTC (link)
(Manuscript-balooza, of course, being a whole 'nother ballgame.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]nekoama
2007-05-11 01:53 pm UTC (link)
Oh, okay!

The more I know.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 01:50 pm UTC (link)
What sucks, though, is that a lot of modern translations of the Bible are translations-of-translations. I.E., the only editions of the Bible available in Japanese are translated from the King James English version, not from any of the original languages.

That's never a good idea.

I have a bilingual English/Japanese copy of the New Testament, and some of the translated Japanese passages make me cringe. Now I imagine comparing the King James Bible to the original Greek and cringing... And then when you compare the Japanese to the King James to the Greek, it's like, cringing squared.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]omega
2007-05-11 02:06 pm UTC (link)
No, it's never a good idea. But many times in history, it was a question of getting the gospel to the "savage" tongues quickly, rather than accurately. This got even worse when the Catholic and the Protestant missionaries started racing for ground.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
(Anonymous)
2007-05-12 07:04 am UTC (link)
It's not just the case in ancient history, though, it's still the case today. Christianity has been (to varying degrees) present in Japan for hundreds of years, and yet still nobody has ever bothered to translate a Bible from any of its original languages.

And yes, in Japan, today you still have your Bible-thumping fundies who will pore over every line of that shitty translation-of-a-translation Bible that they have, looking for anything that could possibly be read as a prohibition against homosexuality, women working outside the home, divorce, etc. And none of them seem to really care about the fact that they're analyzing a really shitty translation-of-a-translation.

Forgive me for talking about Japan so much, but it's the example that I'm most familiar with, since I live here. I'm sure that there are plenty of other countries in the world with the same problem. So I guess I was trying to respond to your comment where you said, so I really don't get the "And then the Bible was translated a bazillion times over!!!1" argument. Yes, I know, it's quite easy for someone living in North America or Europe to a) find an excellent translation of the Bible or b) study any of a number of Biblical languages at "your local community college." The same is not true, however, for much of the rest of the world.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]wtf
2007-05-11 08:51 am UTC (link)
That pun is deserving of an internet! Would you prefer Original Recipe Internet, or Extra Tasty Crispy?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]nekoama
2007-05-11 11:09 am UTC (link)
Hmmm, I've tired Original Recipe, so I'll have a go at that Extra Tasty Crisp, TYVM. :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: My thoughts on Yahweh
[info]catslash
2007-05-11 08:49 pm UTC (link)
*gets in line to award an internet for comment title* That was too funny.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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