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hallidae ([info]hallidae) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-06-04 19:02:00


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Quit having kids, you're wasting my money!
A post is made to [info]bad_service in which a mother with WIC vouchers and several kids was insulted to her face and behind her back by a clerk. While most people seem to agree that this is bad service, about half the commentors are also quick to tell the OP that she's brought it all on herself and to either quit whining or quit popping out babies she can't afford. 123 comments of "My thoughts on having kids" and growing.


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[info]velvet_mace
2007-06-05 01:27 am UTC (link)
You know the kicker to all this: most of those people griping about her having too many kids probably advocate for a woman's right to choose. They just never consider that part of a woman's right to choose, is the right to have a large family if she fucking wants them.

But this isn't really about how many kids she has, it's about how much people hate paying taxes for social programs they don't actually reap the benifit of*-- and that's a whole other can of sardines.

*At this moment. They change their tunes fast when they can cash in.

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[info]wtf
2007-06-05 02:13 am UTC (link)
That's what I was thinking. Also of the pro-lifers who are anti-welfare, forgetting that we actually have to take care of the kids that they're working so hard to save. -_-

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[info]velvet_mace
2007-06-05 02:21 am UTC (link)
Ah but you see fetuses are pure and virtuous, the distilation of God's Love! Once they are born, they quickly become tainted with misbehavior, such as irritating loud noises and obnoxious smells, and they forfiet the right to any care about their welfare.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]daylightsparks
2007-06-05 03:48 am UTC (link)
Not to mention anti-universal health care - including prenatal care. Who cares if they're healthy, as long as they get born?

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[info]rachelmap
2007-06-05 08:01 am UTC (link)
The behavior of those people leads me to suspect that in their perfect world, poor people's babies would all be born, baptized and die in the space of half an hour--preferably by the side of the road, so mother and child don't clog up the hospitals.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]the_mouse
2007-06-06 05:41 am UTC (link)
Well, for some of them, it's less about the children and more about the fact that people are having SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE AND IT IS AGAINST GOD'S LAW DAMNIT. I'm sure many of them do indeed care about the fetuses, but I can't help but feel that the fact that no fetuses were harmed is seen by some to be less the main goal and more of an extra benefit.

And now for something completely different!

*plays a kazoo*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chaimonkey
2007-06-05 03:10 am UTC (link)
Right on both accounts. And with the latter, do they ever put any time into attempting to better the system? I do believe the answer is no.

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[info]rimrunner
2007-06-05 03:16 am UTC (link)
To be fair, I know a few who are.

But—and this is key—they're out there actually putting in that time, as opposed to dogpiling on someone on the Internet.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]chaimonkey
2007-06-05 03:25 am UTC (link)
But—and this is key—they're out there actually putting in that time, as opposed to dogpiling on someone on the Internet.

And it's those who I was meaning, I should have been clearer to be fair to those who do put in the time, because they are made of awesome.

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[info]rimrunner
2007-06-05 05:17 am UTC (link)
I know, just sometimes it does me good to remind myself that they do exist.

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[info]mmanurere
2007-06-05 03:53 am UTC (link)
But—and this is key—they're out there actually putting in that time, as opposed to dogpiling on someone on the Internet.

When everyone takes up that attitude we'll be able to close otf_wank (and take up airborne hog-farming).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rimrunner
2007-06-05 05:17 am UTC (link)
Hmm, do you think there's a market for it? What would the bacon be like, I wonder?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kittenmommy
2007-06-05 06:17 am UTC (link)

Would it carry E. coli?

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(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2007-06-06 05:45 am UTC

[info]cactuar_tamer
2007-06-05 04:42 am UTC (link)
While I agree with the condemnation of the assholery involved in the OP's situation...

I support the right to reproductive choice, but I still end up wishing that some people would make better choices. Kinda like supporting free speech but wishing some people wouldn't say offensive/stupid things.

/ my two cents

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]visp
2007-06-05 06:10 am UTC (link)
*nods* especially if you have to pay to support it. If a woman wants 15 kids, good for her. If she wants me to help pay for the kids, hold on a minute.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rachelmap
2007-06-05 08:05 am UTC (link)
But since you are going to pay for those kids one way for another, it's better to spend a little money on healthcare and schools now than a lot of money on police and prisons later, right?

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[info]visp
2007-06-05 12:57 pm UTC (link)
Of course. But it would be even better if I had to spend even less by just paying for the birth control. Don't get me wrong, if the kid's here, yeah it's gotta eat and study and all that, I just wish that there were less of them to support, is all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]fiordispina
2007-06-05 12:16 pm UTC (link)
I wanted to ask some of the people in this wank what exactly they wanted to do about their desire for this woman to have fewer children. Most solutions would either be extremely creepy and anti-American, or would penalize the kids. So, there you are with your OP and her WIC vouchers--deal with it.

But I agree with you about wishing people had better judgment. I'm not sure I'd want to be the child of someone whose desire for a large number of kids outweighed her ability to provide for them as individuals.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-06-05 03:10 pm UTC (link)
The problem I have with saying it's poor judgement to have so many kids is that a persons financial situation fluctuates -- her family is permanent. She's not going to be on WIC forever (It ends when the kids are 5) but those children will be her joy until her dying day. In the years before she had kids, she probably put money into the system. In the years after she problably did the same. Just because someone doesn't have the right situation to reap that particular benefit, doesn't mean that they get nothing out of supporting the kids -- on the contrary, they get the benefit of not having starving children in the street because their parents had a bad financial turn.

I wish people who had kids that they don't want would stop having them: they are the ones that make me angry. This woman really loves all her kids.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]risha
2007-06-05 03:59 pm UTC (link)
I agree. We can't really judge from outside the situation.

Maybe they could get by without the food stamps with three kids, and then she got pregnant again by accident and the child is loved and wanted anyway. Maybe they'd be fine living in a less expensive area, but life happened and they had to move there for job reasons or a family member got sick. Maybe they budgeted and thought they were ok, but they forgot to carry the two or the car died. Or maybe one of them has a medical condition that means that they need to have the children now or risk not being able to have them later, but she'll return to the workforce and be paying taxes and paying off the credit card bill once the youngest starts school.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cactuar_tamer
2007-06-05 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Well, I'm of the VHEMT camp, so I know very well I'm biased on this.

To me, that many children is a bad idea whether you're the OP or you're giving Bill Gates a run for his money. The WIC thing doesn't even ping me that much. I have friends who grew up on welfare, my own family isn't, but we did start out fairly well off and have fallen pretty far through a series of unfortunate and unpredictable events. I can understand all of that pretty well.

So yeah. I think it's a bad idea in general, but I'd never go around saying that to parents. I keep my mouth shut, until I'm talking to someone who agrees with me or who asks, or when it comes up in conversation vis-a-vis my own decision not to reproduce. There's really no excuse for being so deliberately rude to other people, in my mind.

My post was just to comment on how one could be pro-choice and still critical of some choices.

/ probably too much talky.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-06-05 07:34 pm UTC (link)
*nods* And you bring up a point -- you are child free and I bet you absolutely HATE HATE HATE when people get on your case about it. But it works the other way around too. For those who want to have a large family, having their choices being second guessed by other people is just as irritating. It annoys the hell out of me every time I see the "Vagina: it's not a clown car" because that couple made the choice for their own reasons to have a very large family. It's their own business as to why and no one elses.

See the thing is we know what is right for us. What was right for me was two kids, a third would have been okay, but I wouldn't want to go through the effort of raising, say, six. On the other hand, I would have been miserably unhappy if I were childfree. Intellectually I can understand why some women might want to never have children, but emotionally I can't do it, because emotionally I can't really put myself in their place.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]luna_hoshino, 2007-06-06 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-06 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]luna_hoshino, 2007-06-06 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-06 04:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chester_w, 2007-06-08 05:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-08 02:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - iwanttobeasleep, 2007-06-10 08:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-10 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]penguinfaery, 2007-06-10 02:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-10 03:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]penguinfaery, 2007-06-10 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-10 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]penguinfaery, 2007-06-10 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-06-10 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]penguinfaery, 2007-06-10 08:18 pm UTC

[info]velvet_mace
2007-06-05 03:11 pm UTC (link)
Oops I put this in the wrong place. Sorry!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]fiordispina
2007-06-05 06:05 pm UTC (link)
'Sokay, it's a good point and the email reminded me to come back to the thread.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-06-05 03:13 pm UTC (link)
I put your reply in the wrong place, my bad.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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