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penguinfaery
2007-06-10 02:33 am UTC (link)

It's their own business as to why and no one elses.

It's not their own business when they're paying for it with other people's money. Granted, if you read farther in the post, the poster just got caught. But the post it's self is badly representative of this and without back information, is a perfect example of what unfortuantly there is a lot of out there. "Gimme money, oh, by the way, preggers again."

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	velvet_mace 2007-06-10 03:32 am UTC (link)
	That's the price of living in civilized society. I, for one, appreciate living in a first world country. "Gimme money, oh, by the way, preggers again." You know, I don't think you can come up with a shallower, meaner, and more selfserving way to look at the situation. Kudos. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

penguinfaery
2007-06-10 03:43 am UTC (link)

Yep, as am I. I'm also aware any good system can be abused by the right people.

I'm not saying the OP is like that. I'm saying there ARE many people who are (And if you believe there not, poke around a welfare office for a while), and the OP touched on that reaction, without meaning to (As she does not, by all mean, appear to be anything like that. I do believe she was just shoved into a shitty situation)

You're right, someone putting their kid into that situations IS shallow, mean, and more selfserving. And yes, I'm quiet aware that's not how you meant it. I'm sorry, I've been a kid living with in welfare family. It's HORRIBLE. If it's a necessary evil because hard times come, then thems the breaks. But I do know people, personally, who are of that mentality. And have, personally, heard the phrase "Well, at least my check will be bigger."

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velvet_mace
2007-06-10 04:03 am UTC (link)

Giving birth to a child you love is shallow, mean and self-serving? Listen, I'm upset when poeple who don't want children have them, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about ordinary productive people who have come upon a hard time.

The system can be abused, and it sure is. Look at the CEO's of giant corporations and you'll see a system abused to the max. But that is no excuse for hating on people whose life stories and circumstances you know nothing about.

It sucks to be poor -- but making generalized statements about their motivations in absense of any evidence to back it up? That sucks, too.

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penguinfaery
2007-06-10 05:26 pm UTC (link)

Reading comperhension > assumptions.

I'm not TALKING about just poor people who hit upon hardtimes, or people who are having babies they love (Althought I still think, if you can't afford a baby, don't have one. Sorry. You don't have to be flamingly rich, but you should be able to afford the basic. it's just the resonsible thing to do. I want a baby right now, and could love it deeply. However, I couldn't pay for it's diapers, and if I had it now never COULD because I'd never really get my feet under me.) You can't survive on love. Just like you can't survive on money.

I'm talking about people who abuse the system, and just DO have kids to leech. And yes, they exist. My mother worked in welfare for year, so she DID know all their circumstance. WE are talking about people who don't want their children because we're NOT talking about the OP, or people who've come upon hard times. We're talking about the leeches of the system, not the one who use it as it should be used.

And for the record, I think the system is worth supporting the leeches, and wish we'd put more money into it. But that doesn't make me happy about the leeches. And it really doesn't make me happy about the woman I've seen, both on and off welfar, who see babies as thing and not people they are going to have a GREAT responsibilty to. And unfortunatly, I've seen WAY to many example of that prsonally in my life.

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velvet_mace
2007-06-10 05:38 pm UTC (link)

Granted, if you read farther in the post, the poster just got caught. But the post it's self is badly representative of this and without back information, is a perfect example of what unfortuantly there is a lot of out there. "Gimme money, oh, by the way, preggers again."

Without back information you assume that what's going on is someone with a "Give me money, oh by the way, preggers again" attitude.

That's what bothers me. This lady did give some back information that suggested otherwise, but why would you immediately assume in absense of that information that she was someone abusing the system? Why not make the assumption that she didn't have access to birth control, or that it failed, or she was someone whose religious beliefs forbid the use of contraceptives or abortion? Why immediately assume the absolute worst of the person.

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penguinfaery
2007-06-10 08:18 pm UTC (link)

Ok, once again, the pregger thing was NOT about the OP. I was saying her post, because of her attitude, and the way it was worded, SEEMED like the post of one of those woman. And THAT was what people ressponded to. Because that's a really shitty thing to do, and people do do it, and her post didn't SEEM to be missing any information until you got the information it was missing. It SEEMED like she had all the information.

I didn't assume that was the situation. Because I read the bit where she explined that bad times hit, and after this one she's getting her tubes tied.

BUT her post, without that back information, seem like the post of that kind, and didn't seem to be missing any information. Why would we assume? Her attitude. Which, by the way, she herself admitted to (Via her friend) was not what she meant. There didn't SEEM to be an absense of information. She exaplined her whole family, why they were on welfare, etc, and the way it was worded, it seemed like birthcontrol had failed 4 times.

Why not make the assumption that she didn't have access to birth control, or that it failed, or she was someone whose religious beliefs forbid the use of contraceptives or abortion

Because we didn't have to assume, she said she used Birth control and that it failed but that it was ok because she wanted a big family. Which would be fine, but the way the post was worded, it seemed like that was the case with all 4 (As oppose to just the last, which was the case). Which ISN'T ok. (And would also be pretty statically impossible, to have birthcontrol fail 4 times)

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