Current mood:

Mildly Amused

Wanted: Hot woman to sexually service couple. Must be prepared to emigrate.
The ever productive polyamory community is at it again, folks.

It all started when a newbie, timetraveler7, posted to the community with an introduction.

My wife and I are polyamorists without living polyamory. Imagine how we felt when we discovered that. Now all we need is some friends of like persuasion, with who we can gab and gab about such a nice thing as LOVE. We live in Belize, Central America--having recently emigrated. We have lots of room in paradise for friends and visitors. In partaicular, we think we would like to find that special "she" who might like to get to know us...with whom we can dream. Or more. Anyone out there like to get to know us?

Trouble kicks off right away, as observant members note that it's against community rules to post intro posts and personal ads without including a topic for general discussion. timetraveler7 acknowledges this but does nothing about it, citing not knowing how as a defence. The mod intervenes, tersely requesting it be edited. And then things kick off, as nine_waters takes offence to the mod doing her job (o noes!) and flounces out. The snarking commences.

Minor, as these things go. Wait. It gets better. timetraveler7 reveals more about himself... and people, it's good.

mactavish points out the obvious flaws in his quest - namely that a) suppose the person they start dating goes off one of them, and b) who the hell's going to leave their whole life behind and emigrate to fucking Belize? (Except a bit politer than that, but you get my drift.)

Mr. Time Traveler responds with a potted biography that notably fails to give a straight answer to either point but does contain abuse of the English language that brings tears to the eyes. In which we discover that he's 66 and he's on his second (third?) wife... who is 29. He met her online and married her after a two-week in person courtship. And to top it all off... he's a Mormon polygamist who believes men are naturally polygamous by nature. Also claims to be seeking friendship more than anything else, and it's completely not about the sex... but adamantly insists that the third he's after HAS to be a woman, because he and his wife don't trust men.

There's plenty here to mock, but my personal favourite has to be the bit about the frustrating pidgeon called Creole. My inner linguist is cringing, but my inner child loves the mental image...

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lottelita
2007-06-21 06:23 am UTC (link)

And you are, of course, the final arbiter of that kind of thing, as opposed to the actual people who are actually part of the actual religion.

The people who actually part of the actual religion -- like, you know, the Vatican -- hasn't excommunicated Mel Gibson. Sounds like he's Catholic to them, so it sounds like he's Catholic to me.

I don't think you quite understand that what you're saying sounds more like "you don't get to call other people not Amish just because they drive sports cars and wear lots of bling and like to play first-person shooter games".

I don't think it sounds like that at all. That's the lovely thing about communication, though: I say one thing, you hear another, we pretend we're sixth-graders, fun for the whole family.

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puipui
2007-06-21 06:41 am UTC (link)

The people who actually part of the actual religion -- like, you know, the Vatican -- hasn't excommunicated Mel Gibson. Sounds like he's Catholic to them, so it sounds like he's Catholic to me.

Actually, if you had even bothered looking into the "Traditionalist Catholic" issue at all, you... oh, fuck it. Clearly you are going to be at this all night, because you are just that stupid, and you truly believe that everyone else has all the reading comprehension and communication problems here, when, in fact, it all comes down to you. I would be better off trying to explain this shit to my cat's ass that to you, as it would make more of an attempt to understand.

Are you always this much of a douche? No, really, be honest, are you?

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lottelita
2007-06-21 06:47 am UTC (link)

Yes, I'm a douche because I'm responding specifically to your arguments. I'm fully aware of the issues of excommunication surrounding the Traditionalist Catholics, but you're the one who insists on name-dropping Mel Gibson every other sentence, so I'm playing along and talking about him. But if you'd prefer to pretend you said something else, so you look smarter and I look dumber, be my guest. I hear comment deletion helps that along quite nicely.

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	puipui 2007-06-21 06:49 am UTC (link)
	so you look smarter and I look dumber That's not hard. I hear comment deletion helps that along quite nicely. Something got deleted during this conversation? Or was that the imaginary conversation in your head that's apparently moving in ways that are entirely different than this one? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	puipui 2007-06-21 06:45 am UTC (link)
	PS: MORMONS HAVE BEEN EXCOMMUNICATING PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE POLYGAMY SINCE FUCKING 1904, YOU MORON. Even your fucking excommunication argument fails, you twat. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lottelita 2007-06-21 06:48 am UTC (link)
	You're the one conflating the Catholicism issue with the Mormon one. I've said from minute one that polygamist FLDS sects are distinct from the mainline LDS church. Continue to mischaracterize my points at your leisure. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	puipui 2007-06-21 06:59 am UTC (link)
	I've said from minute one that polygamist FLDS sects are distinct from the mainline LDS church. And yet you say that they're still Mormon, and then go on to say that if the pope excommunicates someone then they're not Catholic. Continue to make absolutely no fucking sense at your leisure. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lottelita 2007-06-21 07:04 am UTC (link)
	And yet you say that they're still Mormon Actually, I didn't say that. Anywhere. Not sure where you got that, but if you did, I see where your boggle is coming from. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

puipui
2007-06-21 07:28 am UTC (link)

You've been calling them LDS. LDS = Mormon. Yes, at one point, very deep into the conversation, you said that "FLDS != LDS" but at no point did you indicate that you were only calling them "Fundamentalist LDS" because that's what they might call themselves, and that you understand that they are not affiliated at all with the Mormon church and that people who are actually LDS find it extremely offensive when you lump those people in with them. And your response when told that they're not affiliated with the Mormon church was to say "But clearly fundamentalist LDS does exist. QED." when, well, no. It doesn't. It's possible that they call themselves that, but that's not actually what they are.

Wow. It has just occurred to me that you really and truly had no idea how offensive you were being. And I'm not even Mormon. That's... wow, that's just really damn impressive, right there.

Damn, I feel bad about calling you names, now. Like I just kicked a really dumb puppy or something. So sad!

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lottelita
2007-06-21 01:50 pm UTC (link)

I really don't see how it's offensive to say, "There are these people who are called the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who are not the same as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." Which I said quite clearly, several times, and even linked to the oh-so-reliable Wikipedia article which makes that schism quite clear. But please don't let me stand between you and a good bout of indignant self-righteousness.

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	puipui 2007-06-21 05:12 pm UTC (link)
	Aww. Thank you, poor dumb puppy, for trying to make me feel less bad. That is so nice of you! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tez 2007-06-21 05:24 pm UTC (link)
	So -- out of curiosity, does all your knowledge of this subject come from said Wikipedia article? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lottelita 2007-06-21 08:19 pm UTC (link)
	Nope. Also, if you're Mormon (?) and I offended you, I apologize. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mrbimble
2007-07-01 04:00 pm UTC (link)

well, I'm Catholic and you've offended ME, do I get an apology?

What Mel Gibson and his ilk is NOT current modern-day Catholicsm. People leave the Church ALL THE TIME - they don't have to be excommunicated to leave.

People CALL themselves Catholic and don't pratice the religion. PolyMormons aren't truly Mormon, and MG and his ilk aren't really Catholic. They can CALL themselves the Queen of England for all I care.

(Just so you know? Most recent excommunications have been of Church officials that don't follow Rome's teachings. If the Church started excommunicating practicing Catholics [yes, like me] that chose to disagree on certain issues... well, there'd be no Catholics left)

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	vito_excalibur 2007-06-21 02:00 pm UTC (link)
	Remember, it's pointless to argue on the Internets with a person who can't read. ~~Or think.~~ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lottelita 2007-06-21 02:10 pm UTC (link)
	But if I don't get the last word ... THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ecchaniz0r 2007-06-22 03:14 am UTC (link)
	lolfanpoodle (Reply to this)(Parent)

white_serpent
2007-06-21 04:39 pm UTC (link)

Could it be this?

Well, there is in fact a church calling itself the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and they haven't been struck down by Joseph Smith yet, so ...

Or maybe this?

But pretending that FLDS doesn't exist because LALALALALA THE NICE MORMONS DON'T WANT IT TO is absurd.

Because that implies it to me.

No one's denying this particular sect exists. You decided to make that jump all by yourself. You asked if using the FLDS name was kosher, and you were told "not really." Since then, you've apparently been trying to prove it's a perfectly okay term to use and no one should be offended.

So, why did you ask if it was kosher, again?

Part of the problem in using that term is that by doing so, you're also implying that all people who characterize themselves as "Mormon polygamists" are part of this specific breakaway sect, which is untrue.

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	tez 2007-06-21 04:42 pm UTC (link)
	I love you. May I have your internet babies? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lottelita 2007-06-21 08:24 pm UTC (link)
	You're right; I shouldn't have asked if it was kosher/accurate to call FLDS people FLDS. It clearly is accurate. If it offends someone, and might thus be thought of as "unkosher," so be it. Thank you for reminding me that not all polygamists who (claim to) follow in Smith's footsteps are FLDS. It is difficult to keep the wackos straight, lord knows. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hearsawho 2007-06-21 09:59 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus. I can't even tell what the hell it is you're trying to argue anymore. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ecchaniz0r 2007-06-22 03:15 am UTC (link)
	D'you ever shut up and think before posting, you abysmally-stupid flapmouthed ninnyhammer? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	faultypremise 2007-06-22 04:01 am UTC (link)
	That is my new favorite insult, right up next to 'Cosmically stupid tart'. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rachel_pi
2007-06-22 01:29 am UTC (link)

It's entirely possible for a person to be excommunicated latae sententiae, which means that they incur the penalty of excommunication without any action being taken by ecclesiastical authorities. You can be automatically excommunicated for serious offences, including heresy, apostasy and spreading schism, or conspiring to do those things.

Mel Gibson is commonly regarded as a Sedevacantist, meaning that he believes the current pope, and indeed every pope since Vatican II, to be illegitimate. That can certainly be taken as spreading schism or as intended to deceive the faithful.

Although, you are technically sort of right, because an excommunicated Catholic is still nominally Catholic and can attend Mass, they just can't have communion.

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