this is not the hamster you're looking for (flightstothesea) wrote in

otf_wank,
@ 2007-06-26 12:47:00

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Re: Some random comments

queencallipygos
2007-06-26 05:25 pm UTC (link)

On the one hand, on a purely intellectual level I would disagree with this move on the part of the German government for a couple reasons -- I believe that while Scientology is shady, I don't think we can fault Tom Cruise for actually getting something out of it (hell, unless he tries to force me to use an e-meter, I don't give a toss what Tom Cruise thinks); and the notion of outlawing a religion is generally something I'm a little uneasy about.

On the other, though, I'm...uh, not a member of the German government, so my opinion counts for squat in this issue, and moreover, I don't give a shit. So I'm better served saving my geopolitical ire for something actually WORTH the bother.

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Re: Some random comments

eilan
2007-06-26 05:29 pm UTC (link)

a) Scientology is not outlawed in Germany. It's just under tighter watch than other religions.

b) From another article: Meanwhile, the German Defense Ministry isn't the only party displeased with the idea of Cruise's participation in the film.
Stauffenberg's oldest son, 72-year-old Berthold von Stauffenberg, told a German newspaper Saturday that Cruise "should keep his hands off my father."
If his son isn't happy with it, I can see why the German government would take that into consideration. Besides, it's not as if they need to shoot in Germany.

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Re: Some random comments

queencallipygos
2007-06-26 05:40 pm UTC (link)

Scientology is not outlawed in Germany. It's just under tighter watch than other religions.

On a purely intellectual, all-things-being-equal level, I'll admit this still is a little disconcerting, but Germany is far from the only nation to do this (hell, we do it HERE), so theory and practice are different anyway.

If his son isn't happy with it, I can see why the German government would take that into consideration. Besides, it's not as if they need to shoot in Germany.

Oh, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm saying that the German government should have been forced to comply with this. I'm just saying they should have come up with a better-sounding reason to bar them ("we're....painting that day. And the week after that. Very big job, we got some weird paint that takes...six coats.")

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Re: Some random comments

eilan
2007-06-26 05:45 pm UTC (link)

On a purely intellectual, all-things-being-equal level, I'll admit this still is a little disconcerting, but Germany is far from the only nation to do this (hell, we do it HERE), so theory and practice are different anyway.

I can see where you're coming from, but I suppose Germany reserves the right of being overly catious when it comes to certain things - and is indeed encouraged to do so by other countries. Germany has had problems with the left (RAF), the right (NSDAP) and religious groups in the past and that is reflected in the laws.

I'm just saying they should have come up with a better-sounding reason to bar them

Maybe we could say it has to be cancelled due to rain?

*looks out of window*

That could do.

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Re: Some random comments

queencallipygos
2007-06-26 05:49 pm UTC (link)

I can see where you're coming from, but I suppose Germany reserves the right of being overly catious when it comes to certain things - and is indeed encouraged to do so by other countries. Germany has had problems with the left (RAF), the right (NSDAP) and religious groups in the past and that is reflected in the laws.

Oh, no worries; I freely admit that my ideas about religious tolerance and government in general are a little...idealistic, and should all come with the disclaimer that they come from the alternate universe where I'm married to John Cusack. :-)

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	Re: Some random comments eilan 2007-06-26 05:51 pm UTC (link)
	I fully support this alternate universe. But only if I were married to Michael Shanks. drools (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Some random comments queencallipygos 2007-06-26 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	John'd make a better date than the guy I was last out with. And that's even if the rumors about John having an armpit fetish are true. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Some random comments

queencallipygos
2007-06-27 04:47 pm UTC (link)

Oh, I just remembered an incident from here in New York -- this was several years ago, when Giuliani was mayor. The Ku Klux Klan wanted to give a demonstration here in New York (which, frankly, shows you how insane they are, but I digress) and Giuliani was grumbling about trying to bar them. I think the KKK is abhorent, but I also think censorship is as well, so I was disagreeing with Giuliani talking about refusing them permission to demonstrate.

Then I read their official refusal when it was released -- the city had dug up some very, very old law that stated that it was illegal for anyone to appear in public while wearing a mask. So, officially, the city was going to be rejecting their permit not on the basis of what they were saying, but on the basis of, "well, look, you're going to be wearing masks and hoods, and masks aren't legal, so...sorry." I still was opposed to the idea of them being rejected, but...I had to admit, that was clever of the city.

(The KKK did eventually get that turned around and had a meek little demonstration down by City Hall, with maybe five KKK members surrounded by several hundred counter-protestors. They cut their demonstration short and fled early.)

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Re: Some random comments

eilan
2007-06-27 06:30 pm UTC (link)

To be honest, this is comparing apples and oranges. We are talking about not allowing them to shoot a movie on German military/governmental property with the justification that his religious group has the status of a cult in Germany and the military doesn't want to be affiliated with that. That's not censorship of any kind, they are free to do it in their own country.

Do you think the KKK should have the right to enter military property for the sake of doing a movie there?

The right to demonstrate is part of the German law. As is free speech with the exception of when the first law: 'human dignity is inviolable' is violated. Noone is trying to ban any religion here and we are having a hard time to even ban outright uncontitutional and right-wing neo-Nazi parties here that have Holocaust denial as one of their basic premises.

Really, this is getting too much serious business for me.

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	Re: Some random comments queencallipygos 2007-06-27 06:32 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I'm sorry I wasn't clear with my intent there -- my mind just went on a tangent and I wasn't implying it had anything to do with this issue at all. Sorry for the confusion. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Some random comments scifantasy 2007-06-26 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	You have removed from me all desire to comment on this entry, by concisely and simply echoing everything I think. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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