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Auntie Singe Addams ([info]singe) wrote in [info]otf_wank,
@ 2007-09-22 11:45:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:food, godwin's, jokes that don't go over well, racism

You got your racism in my coffee! You got your coffee in my racism!
[info]evilgrins delivered a list of bogus food terms to the [info]food_porn community which was kind of amusing but the last definition...

arab coffee: Thick, black, bitter coffee, traditionally served in tiny cups at gunpoint.

...really inspired some, uh, debate.

[info]likeawoman is accused of being likeatroll for staying determinedly offended by everyone but [info]obfuscate brings up Godwins first. "If you replace "arab coffee" with "matzo" is it an insult to Jews? "Haggis" (I hear it's good, but what the hell.. who came up with that?), and it's a comment on how violent those damn Scots are? Put "borscht" in there and you're pissing on the Slavs? "Liverwurst" would then, I suppose, mean that all Germans are violent Nazis."

Nobody likes a laugh more than me. Except for my wife. And Mrs. Johnson.

Define 'Offensive.'

Am I the only one that likes Turkish Coffee?

Why the random-ass definitions anyway?

As a White Canadian Female, let me clarify things for ya'll.



See, this is why I drink tea.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]puipui
2007-09-22 06:44 pm UTC (link)
Wait, wait, are people actually arguing that the "at gunpoint" thing is supposed to refer to the taste of the coffee and not the "Arab" part? Like, seriously? Lots of people? Really really? And saying that people who see the bigotry in that joke just have sticks up their asses? Seriously?


If they didn't mean it as racist, it's not racist.

I think I just broke my hand trying to facepalm and headdesk at the same time. D:

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]crickets
2007-09-22 07:06 pm UTC (link)
Pity. Now you won't be able to pat yourself on the back. Seriously, WTF?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rennyn_alerothi
2007-09-22 07:19 pm UTC (link)
Did you see wdomburg's icon?

can't...stop...laughing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]idiom
2007-09-22 07:15 pm UTC (link)
I disagree, but I'll save you the tl;dr.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ecchaniz0r
2007-09-22 07:36 pm UTC (link)
Diagree with what?

I'm not tryin' to be sassy, I'm just curious about what-all you disagree with.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]idiom
2007-09-22 07:44 pm UTC (link)
I disagree with the idea that it is racism and that the "at gunpoint" refers to Arabs and not the "you'd have to be held at gunpoint to drink this coffee" joke/idea. I don't think it's racist. I think the fact that the phrase "at gunpoint" has been around far longer than anti-Muslin American sentiments means we probably shouldn't read more into it than the phrase has ever entailed. But that's just my opinion. (To be perfectly honest, when I first glanced at this wank report, I saw "godwin's" and "arab coffee at gunpoint" and wondered if that's the coffee that was served in the concentration camps. I was disoriented going in.)

Maybe I misunderstood puipui, which I'm sorry if I did, but I disagree with the "it's racist" assessment and since there was no chance of funny and very large chance of SRS BZN, I opted out of more than "I disagree". That's all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

gah
[info]idiom
2007-09-22 07:46 pm UTC (link)
* anti-Muslim

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: gah - [info]wanktastic, 2007-09-22 08:27 pm UTC
Re: gah - [info]idiom, 2007-09-22 08:47 pm UTC
Re: gah - [info]mmanurere, 2007-09-23 12:18 am UTC
Re: gah - [info]puipui, 2007-09-23 03:30 am UTC
Re: gah - [info]mmanurere, 2007-09-23 05:29 am UTC
Re: gah - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2007-09-23 05:51 am UTC
Re: gah - [info]idiom, 2007-09-23 07:46 pm UTC
Re: gah - [info]chaimonkey, 2007-09-23 11:03 pm UTC
Re: gah - [info]marumae, 2007-09-24 04:28 am UTC

[info]cmdr_zoom
2007-09-24 06:18 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, what idiom said. I'd have been caught by this too; it took me a moment to realize why the stock expression "forced to (x) at gunpoint" was so (potentially) heinous in this context.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]warrioreowyn
2007-09-22 07:48 pm UTC (link)
I disagree as well. For one thing, "muslim" is not a race.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]puipui
2007-09-22 07:53 pm UTC (link)
Note that that's why I didn't use the word "racist". Unlike, oh, everyone arguing with wossname in the original post. *more facepalming*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]katarin
2007-09-22 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Forgive me if I'm wrong... but isn't "Arab" a race? And didn't the OP say Arab coffee?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-09-22 09:30 pm UTC

[info]katarin
2007-09-22 07:21 pm UTC (link)
Why are you even bringing up racism? Everyone knows there's no racism anymore. Jeeez.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ecchaniz0r
2007-09-22 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Oh yes, and feminism? That is just sooooo over, too.

(That hurt my face to type.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]puipui
2007-09-22 07:59 pm UTC (link)
Everything I need to know about the complete lack of racism, sexism or any sort of bigotry at all in modern society aside from a stunning amount of anti-blonde sentiment, I learned from Doctor Who fandom. :(

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]katarin
2007-09-22 08:46 pm UTC (link)
Oh me too! I had no idea that, aside from a horrific oppression blondes face in everyday society, we did in fact live in a perfect world of colorblindness with tolerance all over the place. How could anything ever be racist if racism didn't exist?

Thanks Doctor Who, thank you so much for letting me in on that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]the_mouse, 2007-09-23 06:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]katarin, 2007-09-23 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_mouse, 2007-09-24 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]katarin, 2007-09-24 05:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-09-23 07:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_mouse, 2007-09-24 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-09-24 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2007-10-07 10:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]threegoldfish, 2007-09-24 12:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-09-24 08:58 pm UTC

[info]ecchaniz0r
2007-09-22 07:33 pm UTC (link)
My first thought was 'wait - what - oh, it's supposed to be a clever note about the badness of bad coffee...bad choice of expression of coffee badness, o newby one.'

Sometimes things take on unpleasant connotations as times change. This is one of those times. If she'd gone something like, 'traditionally drunk under extreme duress to take one's mind off the consistency of porridge (see above)' it would've been funnier abd she'd have avoided the spanking. Or 'traditionally drunk out of a desire not to offend your host, or because there is no other source of caffeine at hand'.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rennyn_alerothi
2007-09-22 07:57 pm UTC (link)
That's what think...that Evilgrins/Dopple meant it in a "you'd have to be held at gunpoint to drink this coffee" kind of way, and it came out all wrong. To be fair, I don't think that's the first time something like this has happened with him, but I've never known him to be racist.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rennyn_alerothi
2007-09-22 07:59 pm UTC (link)
Still, I read the description of the coffee and was like, "OMG HOOK ME UP!!!!!!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]puipui
2007-09-22 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Either of those would've been much funnier, yes, and also much less reminiscent of those times I've heard nearly the same exact joke told nearly the same exact way and being very clearly meant to convey "Arabs = threating you at gunpoint".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kadath
2007-09-22 08:08 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention, in English the drink in question is "Turkish coffee," or very rarely, "Greek coffee." Not "Arab coffee."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-09-22 08:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2007-09-22 08:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2007-09-22 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2007-09-22 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - tree, 2007-09-22 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2007-09-23 04:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2007-09-23 05:30 am UTC

[info]mistressrenet
2007-09-23 01:12 pm UTC (link)
Plus the 'bitter' line, which...yeah.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]zyna_kat
2007-09-23 01:52 pm UTC (link)
Wait, wait, are people actually arguing that the "at gunpoint" thing is supposed to refer to the taste of the coffee and not the "Arab" part? Like, seriously? Lots of people? Really really?

Yes, really. When I first heard that joke, back in the mid-70s, the context was obvious. Back then, it never occurred to me to associate the guns with "Arab". Times change.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jat_sapphire
2007-09-23 04:25 pm UTC (link)
And where has evilgrins been, then?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lush_rimbaud
2007-09-23 07:54 pm UTC (link)
Of course you're right that people can certainly be racist even if they're not thinking to themselves, "I am going to make a racist remark now." But I think what the OP meant was that if someone makes a remark which sounds racist only because it was poorly phrased, then it's not racist.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]count_bessy
2007-09-23 11:43 pm UTC (link)
I'm late to the party but feel the need to share my relief at reading your comment. I read this first on another community where people seemed to be getting on board with the whole oversensitivity aspect and I couldn't even comment because I knew I'd teal deer all over the place and wind up feeling homicidal.

But now I feel better. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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