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	flightstothesea 2007-10-10 06:39 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah sure, a vegan diet is totally feasible. If, y'know, you buy fresh vegetables and foods all the time intead of what you can actually afford. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	soupspooks 2007-10-10 06:52 pm UTC (link)
	Or what's actually available. I wonder if these vegan idealists have ever been to certain parts of, say, northern Newfoundland/Labrador? - crabapplered (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

brennalarose
2007-10-10 07:18 pm UTC (link)

Here in Richmond, it's a bitch and a half to find Vegan and Vegetarian foods for food stamps that are nutritious, filling, and edible. Speaking as someone who went vegetarian for Lent when I was 10 and the family was hard up, tofu and beans gets really boring really fast.

Moral: Vegan eating sucks on a tight budget. No telling how Professor Bitchboots up there managed on a teacher's salary.

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	lostmahmarbles 2007-10-10 08:05 pm UTC (link)
	Depends on what kind of teacher's salary he made. We have a teacher in my local school district who retired, was hired back and works random other jobs for the school district while still getting her retirement money. She makes over 100K a year. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	pastri_archy 2007-10-10 09:38 pm UTC (link)
	squints Richmond, VA? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	brennalarose 2007-10-10 10:29 pm UTC (link)
	Yep. Where there's no such beast as a Safeway or a fabric store. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	themadmermaid 2007-10-10 11:36 pm UTC (link)
	There's really no fabric store? Ah, Richmond... All the ghetto of the city without any of the amenities. Are there Safeways anywhere in VA? I remember some when I was a wee ickle thing but not since then. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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brennalarose, 2007-10-11 01:37 am UTC

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themadmermaid, 2007-10-11 02:37 am UTC

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shaysdays, 2007-10-11 02:46 am UTC

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brennalarose, 2007-10-12 03:18 am UTC

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heddychaa, 2007-10-11 04:13 am UTC

soupspooks
2007-10-10 11:23 pm UTC (link)

I'd have thought it was the supplements they seem to swill that'd cut into the budget, but since my one in-person witnessing of a vegan eating involved one of the worst kinds of vegans ever (the awful "I'm doing it to piss off my parents and make them do all the work when it comes to figuring out what to feed me" kind) I'm willing to admit I might not have gotten a proper idea of what a true vegan diet is like.

Newfoundland is pretty far north in the great scope of things, and they have a hell of a time getting fresh produce, especially on the island. I have a friend who went camping there, and he commented that in some of the smaller, poorer communities fruit basically meant raisins, apples, and if you were lucky and they were in season, local berries. I dunno if it's just the communities he hit or the time of year, but it makes sense that northern communities wouldn't have access to the bounty of fresh fruit and veggies so many people take for granted. :/

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	tachikoma01 2007-10-17 12:14 am UTC (link)
	Ah, comments like this remind me of why I'd make a terrible mom. If my kid did that to me, I'd say "Fine, here's your rice and beans. I'm cooking meat and if you don't like it, you don't have to eat it, but if someone has to do extra work for you to eat it ain't me." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ladyrogue 2007-10-12 06:21 am UTC (link)
	I have two vegetarian friends who live in Richmond, though I don't know where they shop. shifty eyes They're close to Chippenham and I have no clue what's around there. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	brennalarose 2007-10-12 02:14 pm UTC (link)
	Ellwood Johnson, maybe. It's off of Carytown so it shouldn't be that far from Chippenham lives off of Jahnke, which is off Chippenham (Reply to this)(Parent)

	warrioreowyn 2007-10-11 01:36 am UTC (link)
	I thought those argument made sense until I actually lived on my own this summer. Vegetables (carrots, celery, cucumber, peppers, onions, etc.)? Apples? Cheap. Meat and cheese? EX-PEN-SIVE. I'd bet anything lentil are cheap too. You'd have to be crazy to voluntarily live primarily off veggies, lentils, and rice meals, but it would be massively cheap. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	flightstothesea 2007-10-11 01:48 am UTC (link)
	Speaking as someone who lives on their own full-time, I can say... no. Not really. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	soupspooks 2007-10-11 02:44 am UTC (link)
	That depends entirely on where you live and what it costs to ship fresh vegetables to your area. (Reply to this)(Parent)

wrongly_amused
2007-10-11 03:16 am UTC (link)

The heavily preserved, less healthy canned stuff? Yeah. Fresh produce? Eh, not so much. A lot of the stuff can be impacted by seasonal or export changes. It costs about $3-4 to buy a bag of cut lettuce at my Giant Eagle, and that bag of lettuce has half the calorie count of that $8 worth of meat unless I buy more items to put on it. I'd think it easy to make up the difference monetarily by trying to build up the daily calorie needs in vegetables/fruits alone when you could supplement it with a protein or dairy product.

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	hallidae 2007-10-11 03:35 am UTC (link)
	Seasonal changes. I swear to God, this (and a soy allergy) is what keeps me from attempting vegan. Nearly all of my favorite fruits are sold in this area only during particular times of the year, and it's frustrating as hell, because when they are sold, they're massively expensive. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

napalmnacey
2007-10-14 05:00 pm UTC (link)

We have that problem here in Western Australia. Bananas go on random spikes in price (luckily I don't eat bananas cause, as amusing as they look, sound and feel, the taste and texture makes me balk) and just recently tomatoes were eight dollars a kilo. (That's roughly four dollars a pound, and there's currently only ten cents difference between the American and Australian dollar). The price went back down to four again, but it's prompted Mum to try to grow her own tomatoes.

Australia is having serious drought problems at the moment, so fresh produce is not always the cheapest option in our area of the world. Then again, neither is meat. So the vegans, vegetarian and omnivorous folks are screwed, doesn't matter what you put into your mouth.

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warrioreowyn
2007-10-12 05:30 am UTC (link)

But buying pre-cut lettuce isn't exactly cutting costs. And most calories are more likely to come from grains/legumes than from veggies, the veggies are more for other nutrients and roughage. (I don't expect that it would be easy (or healthy!) for anyone to manage living solely off vegetables and fruits.)

I was thinking more of grains and legumes, plus stuff like carrots and celery and bananas (and potatoes and onions) which you can buy for basically nothing, supplemented with whatever's seasonal and reasonably priced. I'm not saying that it would be a fun or exciting diet, and you couldn't pay me to eat vegan, but lack of money doesn't preclude it; rather the opposite.

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papervolcano
2007-10-11 10:23 am UTC (link)

Yep - At least, if you're not buying pre-processed veggies - bags of salad leaves, pre-cut carrots and so forth (and honestly, if you're paying £2/$4 for a bag of lettuce, of course you're not going to get your money's worth! The markup on those things is obscene). Lentils cost next to sweet FA for lots, same with pasta. If you think about your cooking and try to do what's local and seasonal, you're also quids in. While at the moment I'm likely to have to pay a small fortune for asparagus, other stuff is cheap right now. I just need to think about what I'm eating.

F'rex - I'm down to the wire on my food budget. Tonight, I'm likely to be eating pasta with red peppers, broccoli, fried tofu and chili oil. It will be yum (if not especially healthy). It will cost me a pittance to put together, and the most expensive part of it will be the tofu. The stuff I bought for this meal will stretch to 4/5 meals. I've been veggie since I was 12, and have lived/cooked alone since I was 18. I don't recall at time where getting hold of a few carrots or whatever was ever beyond my reach.

Aaaaaaaaaand I'm turning into preachy-veggie, so to avoid being smote with veal steaks, I'll shut up now.

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	warrioreowyn 2007-10-12 05:36 am UTC (link)
	That's unhealthy? (Speaking from a position where a "healthy food day" is one where I actually consume vegetables ). ;) I've regressed since returning home for university. (Reply to this)(Parent)

napalmnacey
2007-10-14 05:04 pm UTC (link)

You'd cry at my diet. I have IBS that's brought on by endometriosis, so there is so much food I can't have that it'd make a vege-lover cry. No asparagus, artichokes, celery, seeds of any sort or whole grains. Basically no insoluble fibre. I have to take psyllium husks and iron pills because we can't afford enough red meat to get my iron levels up. It also doesn't help that I bleed for a week a month rather than the usual two to four days.

I do wish I could eat the food you do. It's just not feasible for me, I'm afraid.

Though I gotta say - lentils are cheap and delicious. The things my Mum can do with a bag of red lentils, some onions and some spices. It would make you weep with ecstacy.

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	dana 2007-10-11 08:21 am UTC (link)
	Exactly, and in drought stricken Australia, the prices are high, and getting higher on fresh produce. Sure, I can afford it, if I don't pay the electricity, gas or telephone bills. Um yeah. Ah life, how quickly lofty ideals get smushed down. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	napalmnacey 2007-10-14 05:05 pm UTC (link)
	Dude, I just said the same thing. Isn't it great living in a big effing desert? :-P I mean, we can barely afford beef skirt steak! SKIRT steak, for Gawd's sakes! (Reply to this)(Parent)

chvickers
2007-10-15 02:37 pm UTC (link)

I do however love people who make bizarre claims like "only a moron would spend more than $100 a month on groceries" or "sweet potatoes are only 40 cents a pound [in your 1975 dreams, sugarplum - try $2.29/lb ON SALE] and they're so nutritious".

Basic groceries here can easily top $250 per person a month, and that's eating things like hamburger, chicken thighs, oatmeal, and the cheapest vegetables around. Throw in a food allergy or intolerance like celiac disease and you can add another $50 on top of that.

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	(Anonymous) 2007-10-16 01:38 am UTC (link)
	I don't know, I'm vegan and I eat hella cheap. Less than $20 a week (usually around $10-$15 because I buy beans, quinona, couscous, ect. in bulk). (Reply to this)(Parent)

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